Cinematic: "Safe Haven"
16975 upvotes
3873 comments
yoloswagbrapbrap
5 days ago
youtube.com
Cinematic: "Safe Haven"
AbstinenceMulligan
3490
5 days ago

I can't believe Vanish is still bugged even in WoW cinematics.

Pangolier
1295
5 days ago

When you Vanish but he still Executin

Ghekor
510
5 days ago

Implying you can escape the one who Cleaves with cheap parlor tricks :D

Edit#1: My first Gold, thx kind anonymous person :D

Matazaonreddit
122
5 days ago

The One Who Cleaves.

Hahaha. Gotta remember that, You made my day.

Ranwulf
49
5 days ago

Him cleaving with his fists, just like the memes. 10/10

CalicoCrapsocks
170
5 days ago

Feelin' execute might delete you later

DeepHorse
9
5 days ago

feelin execute

Thanks for naming my classic guild

GarbageGato
12
5 days ago

Something something spellbatching.

Elcactus
434
5 days ago

After how annoying rogues are with it they deserve all the bugs.

Also it's literally in Saurfang facts

High Overlord Saurfang once attacked a rogue with cheat death on, the rogue still died in one hit.

mamercus-sargeras
60
5 days ago

That's not a bug! He just does a lot of damage and has the vanilla Deep Wounds talent. Working as intended.

DempseyRoller
12
5 days ago

Lvl 80 rogue.

Arborus
26
5 days ago

The sad thing is that could actually happen now that you can't cheat death massive damage.

fgmenth
194
5 days ago

That's because It's working as intended™

Calmeister
21
5 days ago

Noticed the 3rd rogue who got sharded to a low pop server?

nightstalker314
19
5 days ago

It's called anticipation. You even have that as a talent!

XorMalice
12
5 days ago

I think this is the first time we've seen a rogue of any type in WoW cinematics. I haven't played in awhile, so I could be mistaken. Am I?

Synikul
12
5 days ago

I think this is the first time we've really seen a rogue fight. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think we've ever seen an in-universe example of what "stealth" looks like. I guess you're not just being sneaky, and are actually totally invisible.

I mean, that's kind of obvious in hindsight, but video game logic vs in-universe typically differs.

dragon870
2118
5 days ago

D&D: so sylvanas kinda forgot about how strong Saurfang is

FatCommissar
907
5 days ago

Sylvanas: sends two piddly no face assassins to kill Thrall and or Saurfang, one of which is the greatest shaman in Azeroth, the other of which is perhaps the greatest mortal warrior, both of which have proven able to destroy armies and warlords with relatively little effort

Sylvanas: that evening, suddenly sits up in bed .....................wait

LazyJones1
328
5 days ago

They literally tell you that Saurfang followed them.

Sylvanas sent them for Thrall, not knowing Saurfang would be there as well.

MaltMix
193
5 days ago

...which is why saurfang arrived first despite following the invisible zombies...

Shoobster4
265
5 days ago

They were waiting for an opportunity to strike. They just determined the best opportunity to be when there are two hero level characters instead of one.

Jwalla83
98
5 days ago

It’s possible they were either: (A) waiting for Thrall’s family to come back to take them all out at once, (B) about to go for Thrall when Saurfang arrived and decided to wait a min to get some info on the conversation, or (C) determined that Sylv would be extra happy if they took out both orcs and so decided to ambush both

sanekats
15
5 days ago

wat

is that supposed to be better

2 piddly assassins for the guy that 1v1'd garrosh at the peak of his power, and won?

Kaos047
7
5 days ago

As shown thrall is aging, grey hair etc. Hes also obviously not been training like he would have been at that time.

JukeBoxBunker
12
5 days ago

Hes also obviously not been training

Motherfucker still has biceps that could crush a cannonball, he's been sticking to his routine in retirement, I'm jelly.

zombiemicrowaves7
276
5 days ago

They really only think with hype, and not reason.

That being said I'm pretty sure Thrall is still neutered and Saurfang wasn't supposed to be there. A bad plan, still, but not as bad.

c_corbec
127
5 days ago

Plus, neither of Thrall or Saurfang are armed. I think the real question is why Saurfang followed the assassins without bothering to find a weapon. Both he and Thrall had to improvise theirs.

BlitzKriegJesus
233
5 days ago

Because as you can see, he didn't need a weapon lol.

c_corbec
41
5 days ago

I mean...the fence post to the rogue's face probably helped him a tad.

Vineares
50
5 days ago

Yeah but improvised weapons only do 1 Damage + strength mod.

bnh1978
34
5 days ago

I bet he has the Tavern Brawler Feat, as all good Orcs should.

Narux117
14
5 days ago

also Full Orcs probably have something better than +2 str

Yoshara
14
5 days ago

Yes. Sylvanas is trying to get rid of anyone who can threaten her position which is why she killed Calia Menethil, who is the true ruler of Lodaeron.

Farrit
69
5 days ago

"A popular misconception among the fanbase is that Thrall cheated in his final mak'gora against Garrosh when he used elemental magic. However, there has never been any rule forbidding the use of magic and spells. Moreover, there is precedent for the use of magic in mak'gora, as both Shagara and Ashra made extensive use of it during their mak'gora. Thrall had also already used magic in the first mak'gora between him and Garrosh, by throwing lightning bolts."

Re: Gamepedia: Mak'Gora

Aardvark1292
33
5 days ago

I see this all the time. He doesn't lose it in the Mok'Gora, he still uses his shaman abilities in the attack on the broken shore at the very beginning of legion, after he kills Garrosh.

s0sgu_reloaded
16
5 days ago

Yup, he's the one who creates the bridges to the upper part of the broken shore in the battle of the broken shore.

drizzfoshizz
65
5 days ago

But strong Saurfang didn't forget about Sylvanas.

Matazaonreddit
26
5 days ago

It makes me sad that WoW Cinematics have better dialogue than a show previously about politics.

Jackkernaut
16
5 days ago

SUBVERT EXPECTATIONS

TheDivine_MissN
11
5 days ago

This is the quality content I came here for.

The Sylvanas/Dany comparison isn’t lost on me.

Edit: A word

pixelprophet
259
5 days ago

In the comics it's shown that she was planning on killing her sisters, saying that they will serve her later, soo......

dreamfisher
182
5 days ago

soo...... Sylvanas tried to kill them

Proving the point.

KittyCatOmaniac
86
5 days ago

Well, actually, she changed her mind at the last second, justifying it by claiming that all will serve her in death, eventually.

dreamfisher
113
5 days ago

The last time she was actually in character, and genuinely morally grey.

volcatus
28
5 days ago

I'll violate my family after they're dead

morally grey

Uh huh

Twillightdoom
36
5 days ago

I thought it was obvious that she doesnt want them to die, and doesnt want to admit that? She still cares about her sisters but her whole image of being an edgy undead banshee doesnt fit with that, so shes in denial about it.

JMJ05
544
5 days ago

We were on the verge of greatness...

HColossus
237
5 days ago

We were this close!

Shumatsu
360
5 days ago

Hey man, he basically skipped an expac, gotta get to 120 somehow.

Dualipuff
142
5 days ago

Raising boar to then kill to farm xp.

If this is not a new profession in the next Expansion, then there is no justice in the world.

pm_ur_pokemon_team
24
5 days ago

Carpentry. Give us carpentry and player housing.

joritan
207
5 days ago

it's a peaceful life

dumbledowge
51
5 days ago

He could watch the sun rise on a grateful universe.

TheEmperorAzir
107
5 days ago

ZUG ZUG

Mr_SunnyBones
21
5 days ago

"Me IS that kinda Orc"

Electroverted
15
5 days ago

"Hello, old friend."

"SOMETHING NEED DOING?"

EternalArchon
88
5 days ago

I'm more offended its not a lore correct 'Pig Farm.'

Manae
55
5 days ago

If it was a pig farm that gank would have worked. Saurfang can't get near 'em anymore!

shatteredsky888
25
5 days ago

Thranos

Michelanvalo
17
5 days ago

Oh look, here's Aggra, back from the dead

Stubbledorange
10
5 days ago

It's a miracle.

Owlbread
14
5 days ago

He's decided to ignore BfA content and go back to doing Halfhill dailies.

onlyr6s
9
5 days ago

Well tbh, if there is one orc that would be good farmer, it's Thrall. He is a shaman after all.

TechnogeistR
1790
5 days ago
Agleza
829
5 days ago

This is the sort of accuracy I wanted in the Warcraft movie.

greent714
305
5 days ago

It's like Hollywood thinks they wouldn't make any money if they just use videogame cinematics as their concept. Sonic would be dope if they just use the videogame models instead of making their own

LuntiX
289
5 days ago

if they just use videogame cinematics as their concept.

Blizzard's cinematic department could make some of the best animated movies, if blizzard wanted them to.

Knightmare4469
114
5 days ago

I'm thinking the cost to produce such high quality shit for a 90 minute film would be out of control.

MrVeazey
46
5 days ago

They have some rendering capability since they made this, but it's probably not nearly enough to render a whole movie on a realistic timetable. DreamWorks, Pixar, Disney, and some other studios dohave the kind of hardware needed, but partnering with one isn't as easy as it seems. You've got a pretty big logistical problem in getting the data from the Blizzard art people to the render farm without leaks, but it can be done.  

It's not gonna be cheap, but I would definitely see a movie in a theater if it looks like this cinematic, even if it has CGI humans too, where I didn't see the Warcraft movie.

Znuff
10
5 days ago

Render farms exist. That's their whole job.

AspenFirBirch
18
5 days ago

The pacing of the dialogue only works in short bits. They need to show more characterization variety. If you watched even 15 minutes of this it would be very boring.

heartless77
8
5 days ago

They definitely have some great talent in their animation and modeling, but they have never worked on a large scale project before as far as I know. If I am wrong then please let me know. So who knows how it might turn out. Naturally we would assume that with the excellence they produce their other projects they would also do well in a feature length film but ultimately who knows?

cowpiefatty
104
5 days ago

If blizzard just used their cinematic style for a full length movie i am confident it would be the best movie ever made.

TheBigGame117
108
5 days ago

And the most expensive

cowpiefatty
9
5 days ago

This is also true.

sc2noob100
12
5 days ago

Dalaran probably shouldn't have been floating tho...

hawaiian0n
38
5 days ago

This community amazes me.

TechnogeistR
9
5 days ago

Don't be too blown away, took me all of five seconds to get those screens.

Forgot to even explore the map on my mage alt lmao.

Skirdus
1330
5 days ago

Saurfang sneaking up on rogues sounds accurate given his meme status back in the day

Sydarta
807
5 days ago

Saurfang is the one ganking the rogues.

Luskarian
318
5 days ago

Saurfang has x-ray vision but spared them just to look at undead booty while travelling

PhortDruid
249
5 days ago

A buddy of mine saw Saurfang take his shirt off in the shower, and he said the Saurfang had an 8-pack. That Saurfang is shredded.

gypsieslayerman
121
5 days ago

"Your friends a liar, Saurfang's a punk bitch. " -Sylvanas

MrPootisPow
20
5 days ago

I can just imagine sylvanas says that round a corner as she knows thrall will fuck her shit up

SephyJR
13
5 days ago

Sylvanas: [starts choking and gets force thrown against a vending machine]

streakermaximus
8
5 days ago

Saurfang cleaved once, long ago... He's still following the blood trail.

Sojoez
761
5 days ago

The Orcs are good trackers, and tracking two walking Undead rogues should't be that hard. The smell of decay everywhere, the blighted weapons, the constant glances at recount, all the impromptu duels..

RyuugaDota
368
5 days ago

You missed the incessant jumping.

Source: Former Undead Rogue main.

Zerole00
55
5 days ago

Follows trail of dust puffs

VVIERV
74
5 days ago

Follow the trail of ganked lowbies and the spamming of recount in chat, as well as the complaints there carrying every one else.

Melonetta
24
5 days ago

He also found a corpse with thousands of stabwounds in it's ass and footprints that lead up to it then zig-zag as if whoever made them was strafing in place

Maloonyy
12
5 days ago

"The smell of decay"

But what if they used deodorant?

Sojoez
19
5 days ago

They are rogues, so the Axe bodyspray would be even more easy to follow.

beepborpimajorp
401
5 days ago

Sylvanas has clearly lost the plot if she sent some random undead rogues to kill the world shaman and one of the most powerful characters in Warcraft lore, TBH.

Commando_Joe
347
5 days ago

They were probably supposed to wait to try and take his family hostage. Two rogues with Thrall's baby? They'd be able to get him to kill himself probably if they wanted.

beepborpimajorp
161
5 days ago

that's a really, really, really, really good point. Thank you for sharing it, because I hadn't even considered it.

SolemnDemise
20
5 days ago

You might want to reevaluate the quality of the point. If anything, they still could've kidnapped his family even after he and Saurfang met. I mean, they just heard straight from Thrall's mouth that he wasn't going back, so why spring the trap? Moreover, their odds of success dropped when Saurfang entered the equation, meaning they should've left and went after his unguarded family or waited for Saurfang and Thrall to leave.

Rule of Cool is far too strong this expansion. It's overpowering all reason and logic just to one-up itself.

ketsugi
15
5 days ago

they just heard straight from Thrall's mouth

Most likely Thrall and Saurfang, as important NPCs, were speaking in Common and not Orcish, which the Undead characters are unable to understand even though they most likely spoke Common in life.

Poseidon-GMK
12
5 days ago

To counter, you have an opportunity to kidnap Thralls family OR kill both Thrall AND Saurfang for the value two-fer and really eliminating one of the biggest threats to a coup.

Kazzad
14
5 days ago

Could be the classic "they were given orders just to watch and report back, but got greedy in their overzealous attempts to please the dark lady"

So maybe the right call from sylvanas to have thrall watched, but the underlings bit off more than they could chew

Commando_Joe
92
5 days ago

Probably because they thought they could take them both out with surprise poison while they were both unarmed.

If you notice, the one slashing Saurfang left behind a green mist.

Mr_SunnyBones
341
5 days ago

Typical , 23 other horde members are the other side of Nagrand making final plans , and the two rogues went "Go Go Go" and ran in there ...

Rip stabbyJoj0 and MizzP0intyEnd.

beepborpimajorp
143
5 days ago

this is hilarious and i hope it becomes canon.

like the other horde watched Saurfang snap that rogue in half and were like "hmmm maybe we should go do m+ instead."

SimplyQuid
44
5 days ago

"PvP is bullshit anyway"

BigFitMama
12
5 days ago

"RUNAWAY!"

RankinBass
51
5 days ago

Sneaky Pete!

MarioToast
10
5 days ago

Leeroy Jenkins is proud.

Bayou_Blue
8
5 days ago

I love you. That was the funniest thing I read all day. Thank you. I can just picture Thrall and Saurfang running into the midst of the other 23...

Raid Lead: Wait! Who pulled? Where's stabbyJoj0? Damnit!

[deleted]
107
5 days ago

It's more Blizzards writing because it's just absurd that Sylvanas would send two random rogues to deal with Thrall. (Or Saurfang if they were sent for him)

It feels more like Blizzard desperately wants the large amount of people supporting Sylvanas to stop so that they can release their fancy new sylvanas raid so they are just making her comically evil and inept.

beepborpimajorp
44
5 days ago

Yeah I agree. I want to believe she's smarter than that. This is either crap writing or 4D chess on her part. Given how BFA has been so far, though, I'm leaning towards the former...unfortunately...

Artemicionmoogle
14
5 days ago

I mean for all we know Sylvanus didn't even send the assassins. All it would take is for someone corrupted by the old gods to send them so set up another rebellion to further weaken the Horde. I'm just speculating of course, BfA is the first xpac I have actually quit out of disappointment, so I have missed a lot of the recent story development.

beepborpimajorp
15
5 days ago

The undead are extremely resistant to the void and Old God whispers. (which was established as far back as WoTLK when the lich king was having his minions farm from the pit of Saron, which was all yogg-saron's blood.) So while that's possible, it's not likely.

Rosencrant
9
5 days ago

Has she ever been smarter than that though ? Remember when she had the power to stop Arthas after capturing him, but she didn't because revenge speech blabla

Kabaler
75
5 days ago

Thrall gave up his powers, didn't he? Or the elements abandoned him. One or the other, he isn't that powerful anymore.

beepborpimajorp
165
5 days ago

Look at him. He's huge, he knows how the wield an axe. He's been through the events of the original Warcraft games, and all of what has happened to him in WoW. He has as much experience as all the other major lore figures. His father was an INCREDIBLY capable fighter even without magic, as all orcs are. Let's not forget all it took was original Grom and an axe to injure Mannoroth.

He doesn't need shamanistic magic to be powerful.

Winterstrife
42
5 days ago

The real question is... whose axe is that? I initially thought it was Gorehowl but upon rewatching and pausing it looks kinda Frostwolf-ish? So his father's?

beepborpimajorp
77
5 days ago

It is definitely a frostwolf axe. It's either one he made himself, or it is indeed his father's. Though I think if it was his dad's there would have been some symbolism to show that. As it is, I think it's meant to highlight Thrall going back to his orc roots.

Alesmord
86
5 days ago

I mean Garrosh was an exceptional warrior.

beepborpimajorp
58
5 days ago

He was a Hellscream, after all.

beepborpimajorp
27
5 days ago

Garrosh who had formerly been empowered by the essence of Y'shaarj.

The more even battle between Garrosh and Thrall happened right before WoTLK launched, where it was the two of them fighting in the warchief's throne room in Orgrimmar. Both of them were evenly matched, and Garrosh was only squeaking by to victory when an invasion/disaster stopped them.

kloborgg
14
5 days ago

That was actually pre-Wrath I believe, right before the undead attack on Orgrimmar.

MyMindWontQuiet
30
5 days ago

In addition, there's also never been any rule stating the use of magic was forbidden. You can include that rule in your Mak'gora if you want, but it's not present by default.

This is a misconception coming from the Warcraft movie which popularized the idea that magic is just straight up forbidden, but that's only true in the Movie, not in actual canon.

BenedickCabbagepatch
9
5 days ago

The true warchi-

Commando_Joe
111
5 days ago

It's entirely possible that by 'follow them' he meant he was given information that there was an assassination plot against Thrall and he went to talk to him and the rest was just plot timing.

Mattdriver12
78
5 days ago

Do you really think Blizzard is that good at writing?

Arswaw
143
5 days ago

There's some genuinely good writing in this game. Not all of it is a fluke.

8-Brit
40
5 days ago

Blizzard writing rules:

1) Think of the most obvious, direct, boring thing. That's likely an accurate outcome to predict.

2) They have the writing subtlety of a brick through a window.

3) Characters are incapable of lying to the camera, unless they monologue later or smirk while walking away.

Pangolier
17
5 days ago

It's okay to do the cliche thing if you do it well. It's literally how Blizzard's games became so popular. I just hope it's good.

Silkku
33
5 days ago

tHiS wOnT bE sIeGE oF oRgRiMmAr aLl oVeR aGaIn

HappyBackground
64
5 days ago

Saurfang NEVER lied. Lying is abhorred by the orcs, that's one of the reasons Orgrim got to overthrow Gul'dan.

ThatDerpingGuy
93
5 days ago

My dude just been chugging Elixirs of the Searching Eye since BFA started.

Taizzdiya
12
5 days ago

Isn't it also possible he's just that good at tracking? He killed both of them like they were gnats. It's possible they finally had just said screw it because that window of opportunity was going to be the best he was going to give them

[deleted]
18
5 days ago

The rogues dying so easily makes it even dumber. Sylvanas is if nothing else a fairly competent commander with centuries of experience, why would she send two random rogues that were doomed to fail like this?

brainfreeze91
627
5 days ago

This is Thrall post-Garrosh. He might have saved the world from Deathwing. But he also almost ended the world by failing with Garrosh. Maybe he even thinks the Horde itself is a failure and resents all the faction wars he's helped cause. He's helped Azeroth, but in his eyes maybe he's done more damage than good. Legion was the last time we saw Thrall, where he gave Doomhammer to some random Shaman because it wouldn't listen to him.

Thrall has every reason to give up and step back now. But I think we all agree that we're glad he's back in the spotlight again.

girlywish
157
5 days ago

Not just a random Shaman, a legendary hero of Azeroth. It makes complete sense when viewed from the personal perspective of your characters story. At that point in the story your character is probably more worthy than Thrall to wield it.

brainfreeze91
18
5 days ago

It makes sense that the Shaman hero is qualified, but that still means that Thrall failed to measure up when the world needed saving.

Shoelesshobos
10
5 days ago

Well yeah my Shaman has whipped the ass of every villian Azeroth has known.

Surprised he did not get asked to rule the horde honestly.

ComfortablyBrum
18
5 days ago

Same. Orgrimmar could really use a Draenei touch. A few less spikes, a few more floaty bits and we're in business.

pm_ur_pokemon_team
188
5 days ago

I mean, he's literally being turned into a mount soon so... yeah

Official_Joe_Rogan
95
5 days ago

DEATHWING MOTOR MOUNTAIN ADVENTURE

Fast Pass wait time: 45 minutes.

Mr_SunnyBones
11
5 days ago

15 for Healers though.

UselessWidget
9
5 days ago

Thrallsballs, Savior of Azeroth

UberMcwinsauce
9
5 days ago

He was saying "I won't come save the day this time" not "I have never saved anyone"

LikesCakeFartVideos
361
5 days ago

Metzen looked at his bank account saw that it was good.

pinkeyedwookiee
16
5 days ago

And there was much rejoicing.

Or whinging depending on your stance.

zhivix
15
5 days ago

Green and swole af thx very much 😂

chrisqoo
10
5 days ago

It would be epic if Sylvanas kills the Green Jesus. But I beg Blizzard dare not do that.

ThatDerpingGuy
1147
5 days ago

I mean, likely wanted to kill Thrall, Aggra, and his children.

You know. Just some morally gray things.

Recurrentcharacter
271
5 days ago

Nah, She just wanted to give them the gift of undead as a thank for all he has done.

Impeesa_
73
5 days ago

Just gonna say it: Death Knight Thrall as lieutenant to Sylvanas and new undead leader after she's gone would be a twist I did not actually expect.

ranthria
15
5 days ago

Well, fortunately Sylvanas doesn't have the power to raise Death Knights, so Death Knight Thrall would have to come to be via the Ebon Blade, who are certainly NOT Sylvanas' lackeys; in fact, they're still quite miffed over the whole Koltira Incident.

Gforcez
82
5 days ago

Probably for the reason that's happening now, that Thrall doesn't side with her enemies to dismantle the Sylvanas horde and to free the horde from her reign.

JD1337
77
5 days ago

Ah the ''Give a potential enemy a common enemy alongside my actual enemy'' tactics that the Alliance also used with for the Dazar'alor attack.

Sylvanas knows it too, always make sure people have a reason to try and kill you!

darryshan
10
5 days ago

I mean... The difference is Thrall was isolated and no one would have known.

hey_sorry
94
5 days ago

This would be the only way to make this plotline interesting now rather than more teasing for some supposed non-same-as-mop storyline later.

Bo_Rebel
23
5 days ago

The way he says “I followed them..” I think implies he was disgusted that he used to follow Sylvanus and the current horde. Not that he actually follows them to thrall.

hey_sorry
18
5 days ago

That's a really cool take and some nice subtext. Blizzard's cinematics are on point and the acting was good enough that this may be the case. That or I am putting on blinders because I want some payoff to Sylvanas' actions not more buildup.

EternalArchon
14
5 days ago

and what context clues did you use to determine that?

ginfish
38
5 days ago

His headcanon.

Rhawk187
10
5 days ago

I think it's obvious he was the biggest threat to her rule. Problem is, if you take a shot at the King, you better not miss.

Falerian1
971
5 days ago

Glad to have Thrall (And Chris) back. Sylvanas fans are not going to be happy about this though.

Cairanmac1
1413
5 days ago

Sylvanas fans are not going to be happy about this though

Sums up all of BfA

Spergsoutloud
291
5 days ago

at the start of bfa people were all out saying they supported sylvanas.

Cairanmac1
697
5 days ago

I supported her. Then things started to unfold and I realized there was no grand plan. It was just stupid decision after stupid decision as a character assassination.

Zeralyos
587
5 days ago

At this point I basically support Sylvanas purely out of spite at Blizzard for ruining yet another Horde leader.

ralanr
323
5 days ago

Frankly I’m tired of Horde leaders getting replaced or corrupted.

Can the Alliance get corrupted next time?

Zeralyos
217
5 days ago

Nope. Gotta keep the Alliance morals pearly white, because that's what the playerbase the writers really want. Black and white morality in a two faction game. Isn't it amazing?

Pangolier
139
5 days ago

Part of what drew me into Warcraft was that neither side was right or wrong. RIP.

WriterV
15
5 days ago

I mean, I'll be honest, all people on the Horde side seem to want is for the Alliance to be evil so that they can feel like they're the underdogs again.

Pangolier
36
5 days ago

Well, all I want is for both sides to be nuanced and conflicted. I don't want anyone to be the good guys or the bad guys because that's boring.

Liramuza
12
5 days ago

this hordie just doesnt want to be blight bombing innocent people/our own capital cities/our own dudes. all i want for the alliance is for you guys to fix your goddamn homeless problem

glemmstengal
16
5 days ago

That was only true for Warcraft 3.

Sprickels
11
5 days ago

Warcraft 1 and 2 had the Alliance being the good guys and the Horde being the bad guys, no gray whatsoever

Pangolier
11
5 days ago

Yep. 3 was the big turning point what with Thrall wanting to change things and finding a lot of allies more concerned with surviving and protecting their way of life than just being murder hobos. I only started getting interested with 3.

alwayzbored114
61
5 days ago

They had such a great opportunity to have Anduin (temporarily) crumble under the pressure. Make a mistake, act brash, somewhat uncharacteristically lash out due to stress... but no, all's perfect. I love Anduin's arc, but I thought that'd be the perfect way to keep him being a good guy, but make a genuine mistake that would spiral out of control. Have the Alliance leaders lose faith in him and all act of their own accord, fanning flames of war, etc etc

Slowly have Anduin learn from his mistake, reconcile with the Alliance leaders (and perhaps do away with the whole High King deal in the first place, as I feel Anduin perhaps would), and leave the expansion with a renewed Alliance and a more prepared Anduin

LuckyOverload
19
5 days ago

There really needs to be more inner conflict in the alliance leadership. An interesting dynamic would have been Tyrande and Greymane should be warhawking against Anduins inherent pacifism, and would have added some intrigue to an otherwise incredibly stale alliance storyline

alwayzbored114
9
5 days ago

Even for something like the Alliance, a perfect transfer of power between two TOTALLY different rulers is... crazy. Each leader could, entirely justifiably and without being a straight up bad guy, disagree with Anduin taking charge and go about their own business in their own way. Not only would this develop Anduin into a true leader, but we could actually see other Alliance leaders doing something for more than 1 patch. Highlight each section of the Alliance, their goals, and differences then bring them all back together under the same banner at the end.

Ennbeard
15
5 days ago

They had a perfect moment to have Greymane's anger (over his family, and the Broken Shore misunderstanding) cause a schism in the Alliance instead of the Horde. Could even throw in some asspull about how when the Scythe of Elune was used it caused him to lose some control over the Worgen curse (and whatever plot reason to keep other Worgen fine).

Have Greymane (and Jaina) trick Anduin into attacking Undercity first, then make Darnassus retaliatory, and give Sylvanas actual cause for her paranoia. This adds Tyrande to the war party, and now Anduin is outnumbered by his advisors.

This gives back actual reasoning for a lot of Sylvanas actions. She now has reason to be paranoid, which combined with her fear of dying, leads to some rash and fearful decisions. This leads into the burning of Teldrassil instead of just taking it, along with her war campaign actions, and still justifies Saurfang's arc.

This would both give the Alliance an actual storyline of their own, make Sylvanas actions more believable, and also cause a nifty little narrative "mirroring" between both factions, as they are both struggling internally while still being at war.

BatOnWeb
14
5 days ago

Yep. Alliance purge squads? Ahh nope let’s just change that before it hits live.

Kitschmusic
98
5 days ago

The sad truth is the whole "horde is falling apart" is a pretty cool idea and a great way to bring Thrall back and hopefully make him more than a green hippie Jesus. Bring back some of his old warrior feeling. And making all the players part of it is amazing, making people question their own faction is a bold move that can be really cool.

Sadly, it was not implemented that well. Not only did they take a rich lore character and made her yet another villain, they even had to bend several of her key traits to make her this villain.

And then Blizzard also lack the faith of the community. The whole "faction falling apart" is only cool when the community believes in the storytelling, but without any hope for the quality people are just left feeling like their faction is getting ruined.

Had they not ruined Sylvanas and if I had faith in them then it could be really cool to experience my faction getting ruined from within just to then rally and save the Horde. This is just not the experience we ended up with.

It is like how with the announcement of BfA and the trailer I was so excited - bringing WAR into warcraft again, no more space traveling, alien villains, time traveling or all that, but back to Alliance vs Horde. But as we know now, while it looked good on the paper, this wasn't the experience we ended up getting.

VoidHaunter
62
5 days ago

They could have easily had the Horde falling apart due to people mistrusting Sylvanas' motivations and actions while having her sincerely attempt to steer the Horde in the direction she thought was the best. Instead they have that mistrust come off as justified because is always shown scheming in the background and never explaining any of her plans.

Kitschmusic
36
5 days ago

people mistrusting Sylvanas' motivations and actions while having her sincerely attempt to steer the Horde in the direction she thought was the best.

This is exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote my last comment. Sylvanas has a very different look at how to rule and it is already established quite well that Orcs (which are the majority of the Horde) have a bit of a mistrust for her. Orc values just don't fit with Sylvanas' values. She is okay with assassinations and the likes to help her people, Orcs tend to think it dishonourable. Her character were already enough to make it work and it would have made for a much better story where it would feel much better both for people that likes Sylvanas and those who don't.

VoidHaunter
29
5 days ago

I think the best route they could have taken was to have the main issue be moral conflict. Have Sylvanas take extreme action, but make it clear that it is the best course. Have Saurfang stick around as an adviser, but have him constantly bring up that her decisions lack honor and that the people will not follow her. Have Nathanos act as her agent and as the voice reassuring everyone that whether you like it or not, these dishonorable actions are the best for the Horde and will win us the war.

This allows the players to make up their minds about how they feel about what they're doing and if they're okay with it or not. Do they really support Sylvanas' leadership and have faith in her strategy or are they have reservations about what she's telling them to do and wish that she would listen to Saurfang's council on more of these matters. This would have sown discontent within the people and mistrust in the leadership for some and zealous fervor within others without having leaders committing high treason and having the champions of the Horde side with traitors.

We could have had a great story in this expansion, but due to mishandling, BfA will go down as the absolute worst one.

SomeTool
56
5 days ago

The biggest issue with that is they already did it, the horde has fallen apart and rallied to fix itself. That was garrosh. This is it again but worse.

Kitschmusic
19
5 days ago

Yeah, that is another big issue - it is basically the same thing all over.

MyMindWontQuiet
82
5 days ago

getting hit with the Psycho Evil Stick

Like she wasn't evil before? Sylvanas has done nothing in BFA that has been inconsistent with her past depictions. She's been doing literally exactly the same things she's always done: invading, warring, blighting, assassinating - only now she can do it on a bigger scale than before.

I can understand being pissed when writers have Sylvanas say a dumb line or whatever, like any other character really. But I cannot understand people claiming that Sylvanas is now "suddenly" evil, that she "got hit by the evil stick", that's just not true. Where have you been for the past 20 years? If there's one thing that is consistent about Sylvanas, it's her doing evil or not-so-nice things.

vericlas
20
5 days ago

Especially when you look at the stuff she does during Cataclysm. Really her actions now are just a global version of what she was doing then.

People just have to have their waifu and hitching their horse to the Sylvanas wagon was always going to lead them here.

Wraithfighter
13
5 days ago

You missed the key word in there, "Psycho".

Honestly, I'm okay with Sylvanas trying to have Thrall murdered. It's evil, yes, but it's a Game of Thrones style evil, dark politics that makes sense.

I'm just more puzzled that she's only trying it now, instead of, say, sending her assassins to kill Thrall shortly after the Teldrassil Weenie Roast and having them plant evidence that implicates the Alliance in it, both eliminating a primary political challenger to her throne and giving the old guard of the Horde a further reason to be enraged at the Alliance.

Evil's fine, but Psycho or Stupid Evil is not.

Wraithfighter
33
5 days ago

Yes, she had reasons, but the arc wasn't well handled, and pretty much just served to allow Varian to shift into being the more reasonable one.

Her going "WHO FUCKING CARES IF THE BURNING LEGION IS FULL ON INVADING NO HORDE IN DALARAN", for example, that's just being fucking stupid. I get what they were going for, just as I understand what they're going for with Sylvanas, but execution matters for a lot.

For all the shit people give BfA, at least they managed to un-fuck Jaina...

ioabo
18
5 days ago

My feelings exactly. At this point I've stopped trying to defend and explain her decisions and actions when I argue with friends, because she is written so that it requires many tiresome mental gymnastics. That said, I will never dislike her, her story has captivated me for a very long time. And the more Blizzard is hitting her with the villain bat so as to make more people hate her, the more stubborn I get.

weed_blazepot
11
5 days ago

I didn't "support Sylvanas" but admit it, it was hard not to GET HYPE! (airhorns) after that initial Banshee cinematic for BfA though. That shit was so awesome.

If they actually had a plan and good story, she could have been amazing.

silent519
422
5 days ago

blizzard a year(ish?) ago: "it's not going to be garrosh 2.0"

narrator: "it was exactly garrosh 2.0"

shapookya
156
5 days ago

It's more like Garrosh 0.5

At least his actions made somewhat sense (at the beginning)

LemonoAura
105
5 days ago

At least with Garrosh he managed to accidentally burn every single bridge with the other Horde leaders until he just decided "fuck you guys, you guys are assholes"

Cairne challenges him to a fight, "hell yea dude, I'm gonna kick this strong guy's ass"

accidentally dies, "oh frick"

Vol'Jin: I don't like you

Sylvanas: Does she really need a burned bridge?

Lor'Themar: Can I have some writing?

Blizzard: Not until Pandaria, then you get a side questing area where you share the spotlight with the person who people think leads your race, you're not allowed in the main plot though, except a snarky 1 liner in the final raid.

shapookya
45
5 days ago

I think Lor’Themar was in one of the isle of thunder cutscenes back in the days and as alliance player I looked at him and was like “who’s that?”

EndlessNeoSJW
41
5 days ago

“who’s that?

He's liandry's friend or something.

Coding_Cactus
164
5 days ago

Are they going to treat it like Wrathgate and have this be some rogue undead group that Sylvanas totally didn't know about?

Silkku
153
5 days ago

Your faith in Blizzard’s writing is admirable

onetimenancy
11
5 days ago

Because random undead unaffiliated with Sylvanas attacking them would be better writing?

prairiebandit
10
5 days ago

I'm banking that N'Zoth is mind controlling the forsaken. When N'Zoth is defeated Sylvanas will wake up and be good again.

Spazgrim
23
5 days ago

Undead are immune to old gods influence iirc.

DecoyMcRoy
11
5 days ago

They are resistant to shadow magic, they aren't immune. People made that up after that shit three sisters comic because Aleria got spooky whispers that she ought to off her. People didn't take the "the void sees all possible futures as true" tid bit from argus seriously and things just keep spiraling.

Sharksterfly
68
5 days ago

Why would people not be her fan if for 13 years she was decent character and now new writers team just ruined her

[deleted]
44
5 days ago

[removed]

Sharksterfly
62
5 days ago

Being comically evil and being selfish are different things

MeinKampfyCar
41
5 days ago

She has literally been kidnapping and experimenting on Horde and Alliance civilians since Vanilla

OlafWoodcarver
20
5 days ago

She is canonically evil. Her first acts once she had free will and was no longer facing the Scourge threat in Lordaeron was to kill every remaining living person in Lordaeron.

And here only plot thread in vanilla was developing a plague to kill literally every living thing in the world and hiding it from the Horde.

What part of her story suggests that she isn't canonically evil?

EDIT: This is technically non-canon, but it's totally indicative of Blizzard's intent with Sylvanas since the beginning - her alignment in the old Warcraft RPG is Chaotic Evil.

MaiLittlePwny
9
5 days ago

Her first actions when she had free will and was no longer facing the scourge threat in Lordaeron was to reach out to the Alliance in hopes of rejoining them. She was however rebuffed by the Alliance and joined the horde under the banner of the Forsaken. That's canon.

Also I think a lot of peoples problem isn't that Sylvanas is good/evil but that before she done "bad things" for believable reasons.

I could totally understand Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil she's one of the most ruthless characters in WoW full stop, with a will only matched by say Arthas.

However I don't believe any of the reasons, because none of them are consistent with her character. She is ruthless, single minded a tactical and cunning genius. She invades Teldrassil with the stated intention of occupying it and killing Malf to break their will. She rocks up, achieves absolute and complete victory, has taken Teldrassil and has Malfurion disabled at her feet.

She then decides it would be an ideal time to shoregaze 'let fate decide what will happen to Malfurion' and then burn Teldrassil based on a hissy fit because a random NE NPC tilted her.

So we have a Sylvanas who is ruthless + whimsical, cunning + emotionally volatile, single minded + fanciful.

The writers decided X Y and Z needed happen and they happened, whether it made sense for the characters or not. I don't have a problem with Sylvanas morality, I have a problem with her being thrown under the bus with almost universally terrible writing.

SWTOR has an entire stated evil faction, and it isn't written this hopelessly bad. Evil isn't the problem it's the writing.

GlitzerEinhornPony
11
5 days ago

She has been like this for years. So any fan (and I mean fan of the character and not fan of the character model) shouldn't really be surprised how she developed once she held the power of being warchief.

Saint_Yin
7
5 days ago

So any fan shouldn't really be surprised how she developed once she held the power of being warchief.

You mean how she suddenly received a lobotomy and lacks basic tactical awareness? Hey, you know what's a great idea? Informing Horde leaders about "secret weapons" even though it takes like 3 seconds to realize they'll object to it. Why did she inform Baine about Derek? Why did she arrest Baine, but killed Zelling, but planned to kill Baine anyways? Why did she publicize Baine's arrest to the other leaders? What value does assassinating Thrall provide?

What is Sylvanas even good at, any more? Her unique threat was being good at tactics, but that's clearly no longer the case. Garrosh slipped more stuff through under the radar, and he wasn't even trying to be sneaky. Literally any NPC could have been used in place of Sylvanas, and at least that wouldn't need to tear down existing lore to be believable.

There were a lot of ways to play out Sylvanas going power-hungry, and Blizzard artfully dodged every path and forced Sylvanas through a generic villain mold instead.

brunswick79
10
5 days ago

The character hasn't changed much. If you liked her actions in WotLK and Legion, then you shouldn't have much issue with BfA. She only cares about herself and her race, she always has. The rest of the Horde is being used to further her agenda.

Nerobomb
719
5 days ago

So Saurfang and the Horde are pretty emphatically the main characters of WoW now, right? Like, it's just not a debate. The cinematic was superbly well done, but this is still the third! cinematic about Saurfang quibbling about Sylvanas leading the Horde and totally being another Garrosh.

throwingitawayehey
327
5 days ago

Agreed, i wonder if we’re ever gonna see an Alliance cinematic that doesn’t just focus on Anduin and Genn.

[deleted]
452
5 days ago

The Night Elves suffers genocide and horrific cultural scarring? Sounds like an excellent excuse for more Anduin character development

The non-human races in the Alliance only really exists to make the humans look stronger and more awesome to Blizzard sadly.

ias6661
154
5 days ago

You misspelled Saurfang. 3 full cinematics about how he feels sorry while Teldrassil burns

N22-J
73
5 days ago

Gnomes are still waiting to get acknowledged.

zyx121
43
5 days ago

Who?

c0smicmuffin
18
5 days ago

Nah dude, Mekkatorque got to push a button in a cinematic. That should tide them over for another 15 years.

lastpally
14
5 days ago

What are these gnomes you speak of?

Manae
16
5 days ago

That feeling when more murlocs have been in cinematics than gnomes...

LadyMirax
45
5 days ago

I don't even like Tyrande and I was upset they didn't give her any kind of cinematic for that. If you're going to pull random super-saiyan power-ups out of nowhere, at least back it up and make it as good of a moment as you possibly can.

Skirdus
16
5 days ago

You joke about Anduin character development but even he doesn't get any. He's just a person for Saurfang to rebound his Horde problems off of in Lost Honor.

Alliance doesn't get jack shit this expansion

Shargaz
13
5 days ago

Didn't you get the memo? Tyrande "got revenge for the night elves." Who knew all it took was a machinima made from the leftover budget from the Saurfang cinematics where Malfurion totally owned those six dudes, and a perpetually unresolved Warfront with lackluster transmog options?

Lord_Garithos
191
5 days ago

Even the fucking Anduin cinematic was just an excuse to focus on Saurfang even more.

karspearhollow
34
5 days ago

I only remember being smitten with the animation of Anduin and Genn in that cinematic so after reading these comments, I had to go looking for it. What's funny is I couldn't find it at first as I scrolled down the list... scrolled back up and realized Saurfang was the thumbnail.

You never know, though. We might have a great cinematic waiting in the wings..

kingarthas2
15
5 days ago

I'm sure they'll give us a nice cinematic for the next horse mount we get

Give it some of that good background plot development while the horde get another badass mount

throwingitawayehey
12
5 days ago

Amen. I’m tired of Saurfang, I wish Tyrande had just killed him in Darkshore.

Luskarian
15
5 days ago

When the first one came out, I predicted that there was going to be a second one for the Alliance, with Genn and Anduin bonding even more tightly.

It came out, Anduin and Genn were there, and I was so close to being right.

Then Saurfang.

Now, Saurfang again.

Why did this guy suddenly become the main character of Warcraft again?

Are they realizing that they're running out of Horde leaders to kill?

MrTastix
44
5 days ago

We should have an Alliance cinematic where a few dwarves ruminate on why they didn't just fucking nuke the incessant little shits back in the Second fucking War and be done with it.

jack9lemmon
8
5 days ago

At this point I'd be happy with a cinematic of Anduin discussing the current supply of grain.

I'll take anything, really

Owlbread
11
5 days ago

Watch out, the Horde is fighting with the Horde! But uh-oh, the Horde might be staging a rebellion against the Horde. How will the Horde react when the Horde commits genocide again? Tune into World of Hordecraft to find out!

Elcactus
7
5 days ago

Honestly I'm okay with letting you guys be the focus rather than have the Alliance be a dysfunctional, weirdly written mess.

xiaxian1
136
5 days ago

My attacks, they do nothing! <miss> <miss>

icortesi
40
5 days ago

If you are drunk, you see the enemies 3 levels down.

crunchlets
406
5 days ago

It's even cooler to hear them along with it.

draconicanimagus
143
5 days ago

vwooom

bicykyle
9
5 days ago

There is actually a really cool backstory about that sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t4wgLLP6eA

Flexappeal
202
5 days ago

I don't know what I expected tbh but to see WoW stealth represented visually the same way as Starcraft active camouflage is interesting

not sure what else they could do with it tho

ancrolikewhoa
233
5 days ago

They mentioned this in the BfA pre-story that Rogues are using Shadow magic to create Stealth mechanically, so now we know what that looks like visually. Pretty cool, in my opinion.

Flexappeal
103
5 days ago

Didn’t know that. Always thought they were just lil sneaky bois

Toberkulosis
84
5 days ago

They were until recently; I rememeber reading a long long time ago (might have been in the class descriptions in the cata guidebook back when people bought those things) that warriors, hunters, and rogues were the 3 classes that were basically the ordinary people because they didn't use any form of magic.

Kepabar
107
5 days ago

Vanilla Hunters: BUT I NEED THE INT FOR MANA

gabu87
21
5 days ago

Didn't arcane shot also scaled with spell power?

Platycel
15
5 days ago

So did mend pet.

cal400ex
526
5 days ago

"Welcome to Nagrand. Have you come to tend the crops?"

MyNameIsXal
200
5 days ago

"All I ever wanted was to farm"

Monk-Ey
76
5 days ago

"Shhh! I'm trying to farm here."

rollonthefield
55
5 days ago

"I should've been a farmer like my father wanted"

McBossly
16
5 days ago

"More work?"

kosumoth
74
5 days ago

No, this is totally different! Morally gray! NOT Garrosh 2.0!!!!

/s

ezekieru
15
5 days ago

it's just so fucking boring when they keep showing off Saurfang over and over

yes, we get it, he's a fucking traitor that wants to rebel against the warchief and gathers another traitor that people want to see as new warchief

sylvanas bad? wow what a great cinematic, I guess

wild_cannon
14
5 days ago

I've made peace with the fact they threw away Sylvanas for this garbage fire of an expac, but they could at least let her succeed on one of these dumb plots so that the alliance gets the satisfaction of defeating a credible threat.

SimplyQuid
10
5 days ago

I mean she did burn a tree. In the most stupid, boring, nonsensical way, but still

dashwsk
9
5 days ago

They'd have to build a new secret base under th...

Oh

kaizerlith
9
5 days ago

Naw man you don't get it. While we think she is making Orgrimmar her base she has God King Human Archer slowly reworking the ruins of Undercity into a raid lair. So when the devs said no Garrosh 2.0 they meant their would be no Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0 but instead Siege of Undercity 1.0. It's totally different guys and morally grey how she sent assassins to kill a retired dude and his wife and kid.

/s

BureaucratDog
10
5 days ago

If they are going to rehash old expansions they might as well just do wrath 2. It would be better than garrosh 2.0

MuchosCarpinchos
481
5 days ago

Rolls 8 orc warriors

paradajz666
177
5 days ago

Hope you have Tusks of Mannoroth and Gorehowl for mog.

pm_ur_pokemon_team
87
5 days ago

Dude I've been running SoO on my gnome and tauren warriors for like 17 months straight and its still not dropped.

paradajz666
62
5 days ago

I gave up haha. If there would be a skip quest like for wod/legion raids I would grind it again. Too long of a instance.

RamenJunkie
43
5 days ago

Also several of the bosses are tedious as hell to do solo. Like the docks and the one where you break all the boxes and pots.

yourbeautiful2015
16
5 days ago

Gets Tusks on gnome

Tarics_Boyfriend
477
5 days ago

Hmm I've seen this exact plot somewhere else, cant put my finger on it...

Sharyat
198
5 days ago

Not Garrosh 2.0 btw

Courteous_Crook
156
5 days ago

Op thunder guy is home, wants to kill villain but lost his hammer so he needs a new axe.

BureaucratDog
12
5 days ago

Thors Thralls hammer decided he wasnt worthy so he sulked and retired. Now he has an axe!

Vatrumyr
10
5 days ago

Shit this might be a lawsuit

Muqqey
9
5 days ago

Where is doomhammer?

cxtnqijv
19
5 days ago

It abandoned Thrall and dove into the Maelstrom to Deepholm. Now it's the enhancement shaman artifact.

RarityNouveau
15
5 days ago

And then got dusted for reasons.

simulacraddison
15
5 days ago

It's in my bank.

Lemme know if you guys need it or w/e

aohige_rd
10
5 days ago

looks over at the void storage

... no idea, friend.

7BitBrian
266
5 days ago

Every single cinematic they've released this expansion has been about Saurfang and the Horde. Anduin was in one of them, but it wasn't about him at all, it was about Saurfang and releasing him.

The Alliance has gotten shit this expansion. Horde now has 3 full cinematics while the Alliance has 0.

nocimus
147
5 days ago

If it makes you feel any better, I'm sick of Horde development too. Alliance can have a helping of morally grey, too. Bring back kickass pissed off Tyrande. I'm tired of Horde in-fighting.

phome83
29
5 days ago

They shut that shit down fast when she and malf got beat by Nathanos 5min after she got super powered lol.

Was literally meaningless to even empower her if thats all that was going to happen.

Jwalla83
14
5 days ago

I want to see Tyrande and Genn get fed up with Anduin’s “morals” and lead an ambush on some horde shit completely against his orders. And then to do it again and again, and create this awkward political climate where Anduin has lost control because he has lost their trust so he’s a king but only in title.

Skirdus
17
5 days ago

No, see, they're being very literal with that statement. Alliance has gotten a lot shit this expansion. Horse shit, to be exact

absolutely_motivated
55
5 days ago

It's OK next one will be Anduin looking sad for 30 seconds

Dire_Crow
9
5 days ago

He'll look sad as he gives the Horde all of the Night elves ancestral lands to rape and plunder in some macabre attempt to mimic Varian, claiming that its "the only choice" or something equally insipid.

Skirdus
10
5 days ago

He's always sad, give me Anduin being happy for at least 5 seconds before something else terrible happens to him and he goes back to being sad again

Luskarian
23
5 days ago

I'm just tired by this point.

I wouldn't be surprised if Saurfang gets his own netflix series and five movies while the Alliance still gets nothing.

ArchJay
84
5 days ago

I didn’t even realize it until this comment but you’re right. We haven’t really seen ANY alliance type cinematics..

jalliss
141
5 days ago

Hey, it kinda worked with WoD -> Illidan in Legion

seitung
45
5 days ago

Next expansion is a Bronze Dragonflight jaunt back to Wrath to reap that Arthas value?

Lonelan
18
5 days ago

When you first start writing for Blizzard, you're given three envelopes.

The first envelope says "Open when expansion fails". Inside is a letter which reads "bring back a character that hasn't been used recently or give focus to a sideline character".

The second envelope says "Open when character is dead, exiled, or has turned evil". Inside it is a letter which reads "If dead, start a faction war in their name. If exiled, bring them back and kill them heroically. If evil, make a raid where they are the end boss."

The third envelope says "Open when subscriber numbers fall". Inside it is a letter which reads "Prepare three enevelopes."

dakkaffex
74
5 days ago

saurfang op blizzord pls nerf

ericallen247
15
5 days ago

Blizzard: “We tried. Many devs lost their lives.”

crunchlets
10
5 days ago

Saurfang facts.

Skirdus
117
5 days ago

"And the Alliance is there too!"

hyelander
43
5 days ago

0 alliance was harmed in making of this cinematic... Mainly because 0 alliance was used.

Duese
27
5 days ago

We didn’t even get a proper cutscene for Tyrande’s transformation

Good god, I would have loved to see this.

CarnageS
208
5 days ago

Well you can't expect a cohesive and reasonable direction of story, these writers work for Blizzard you know.

Kynandra
56
5 days ago

Game of Thrones would like a word.

UberMcwinsauce
11
5 days ago

I have really bad news if you think the old gods meddling would be even worse. Ever since the burning of teldrassil was first posted it's seemed like obvious old god meddling to me

Cornincarnate12
19
5 days ago

The foreshadowing can hardly be called foreshadowing at this point. Vol'jin talking about sinister whispers, a N'zoth cinematic, and blatant old God shenanigans in Cos? Where else could this possibly be heading?

darryshan
8
5 days ago

Dude it was literally going to work if Saurfang wasn't there, lmao. The cinematic doesn't even pretend otherwise.

GuyWithFace
212
5 days ago

Please no, I don't want Baine to die at the beginning of the next expansion.

SimplyQuid
98
5 days ago

Maybe he'll just sit on the big chair with his beefy thumb up his ass doing absolutely nothing and then die at the beginning of next expansion

Rakatee
238
5 days ago

Bro, he snapped his neck after he vanished

Enigmachina
139
5 days ago

Once he caught her, it was all over. Invisibility doesn't do jack if they've got hands on you. She's fortunate that Saurfang didn't have a bladed weapon or he'd [Cleave] both in two with a single blow.

yourbeautiful2015
114
5 days ago

Poor thing was illiterate and thought it was invincibility, her dyslexia was her undoing.

stardestroyer277
61
5 days ago

Poor thing was illiterate and thought it was invincibility

It's an old meme, but it checks out

Monrar
12
5 days ago

Saurfang is wow's chuck norris after all

EternalArchon
52
5 days ago

Thrall's neck looks like its made out of green steroids.

Conflagreat
11
5 days ago

What neck?

SimplyQuid
19
5 days ago

The shoulder muscles that ran out of room and migrated north

noneedforpants
65
5 days ago

Saurfang: "This is my Horde! I don't know you!"

Adjective_NounNumber
12
5 days ago

Sylvanas: "What if somebody wants their elf well-done?"

Saurfang: "we ask them politely but firmly to leave"

ignotusvir
11
5 days ago

SH-SH-SHAman

DrewZee-DC
194
5 days ago

Why would Sylvanus want Thrall assassinated?

Mattdriver12
194
5 days ago

Because Blizzard isn't done butchering it's characters.

Skvakk
36
5 days ago

Ye cus sylvanas "has never done shady shit like this before" lmao

jelyjiggler
51
5 days ago

Hmm a figure who is definitely out of the picture is bothering nobody in nagrand? Better murder him

Elcactus
25
5 days ago

That (plus "might be a problem eventually in the future) was literally her logic to attack the Alliance in Good War.

jelyjiggler
14
5 days ago

But it won't eventually be a problem. The only thing that stirred thrall to action was literally her assassins sent to kill him

Mattdriver12
37
5 days ago

She's done shady shit but not out right dumb stuff until BfA

TempestCatalyst
11
5 days ago

I mean she had a Dreadlord as a retainer. Which lead to the wrathgate and losing her capital. Regardless of whether or not you expect the Dreadlord to betray you (because they will) it's basically never fucking worth it to keep them on your side.

Twillightdoom
16
5 days ago

She usually does shady shit that doesnt instantly fuck her rep with every single horde member older than 25.

Burning Teldrassil? Horde commoners probably cheer at that, fuck the night elves, they deny them resources they need in Ashenvale.

Arresting Baine? Traitor actually fucked over a really good plan to take out Alliance leadership and win a war that horde commoner soldiers are fighting in and dying daily.

Assassinating Thrall? He literally did NOTHING wrong towards the Horde populace in their eyes. Maybe some resentment for appointing Garrosh but otherwise not nearly as egregious as other characters.

Iron_Cobra
112
5 days ago

Idk, doesn't seem like a good move. I can't think of a situation where killing Thrall works out for Sylvanas. Granted, she never did understand the concept of doing terrible things galvanizing her enemy.

TheRune
40
5 days ago

To stop the very thing that's going to happen now.

Iron_Cobra
51
5 days ago

I guess, but I think Sylvanas failed her prisoner's dilemma.

Saurfang is there to convince Thrall to help him start an open rebellion. There are two outcomes: Saurfang convinces Thrall or Saurfang doesn't convince Thrall. Sylvanas also has two options: Have Thrall killed or don't have Thrall killed.

Here are the outcomes:

  • Saurfang convinces Thrall, but Thrall is killed. The Horde is galvanized into open rebellion.

  • Saurfang doesn't convince Thrall and Thrall is killed. Saurfang uses the act to galvanize the Horde into open rebellion.

  • Saurfang convinces Thrall and Thrall is not killed. Thrall joins Saurfang and joins the Horde in open rebellion. Worst case scenario.

  • Saurfang doesn't convince Thrall and Thrall is not killed. Open rebellion does not occur.

In three out of four of the scenarios, Sylvanas has to deal with open rebellion on top of the war with the Alliance. Maybe she thinks that she can deal with a rebellion without Thrall being part of it, but idk why she'd risk it with the war with the Alliance only growing in scale with every day. Maybe she just didn't want to leave risking Thrall's involvement to chance or assumed Saurfang was sure to convince him.

TheRune
27
5 days ago

Or she kills them both like it looked like it was intended and now Baine and Saurfang is gone, the potential leaders of the rebellion and with no strong leadership it will ebb out before it even begins.

DrewZee-DC
65
5 days ago

And the only reason he's coming back now us BECAUSE she sent assassins after him. Really weird all around.

Skirdus
100
5 days ago

You mean just like that time she attacked Darkshore and tried to kill one of the Alliance's leaders because she thought they were going to go to war with them and weaponize azerite, and then the Alliance went to war with them and weaponized azerite because the Horde attacked Darkshore and tried to kill one of the Alliance's leaders?

Or that time she had a Kul Tiran village assaulted because she presumed they were going to aid the Alliance, and then they aided the Alliance because they were assaulted by the Horde?

DrewZee-DC
56
5 days ago

What a brilliant military tactician

volcatus
24
5 days ago

Same logic as the Alliance attacking Dazar'alor. Blizzard has D&D syndrome, they decide on big events they want to happen and then they brute force the in between parts to line up.

DrewZee-DC
30
5 days ago

Next cinematic: Thrall butchering everyone in Org because Sylvanus won't step down as Warchief

Mike737
200
5 days ago

Right so this is the third cinematic starring Saurfang.

Wasn’t this an Alliance vs Horde expansion starring Anduin and Sylvanas? Guess 50% of the player base can go fuck themselves.

Coffee_J
97
5 days ago

Remember when people thought we'd get one about Greymane and they'd alternate back and forth?

NerysWyn
71
5 days ago

Your mistake was thinking Blizz giving any shit about Alliance, least of all Genn.

DassenLaw
22
5 days ago

Yeah Saurfang and Genn both should have gotten an old soldier animation. The fit is perfect.

  • Both Old soldiers
  • Both lost their son in war
  • Both disagree with current leadership
  • Both want back old values of the faction

But i do agree with blizzard, an alliance cinematic would not fit into World of Hordecraft.

GhostsofDogma
30
5 days ago

We are officially less than an afterthought.

threep03k64
17
5 days ago

Guess 50% of the player base can go fuck themselves.

Pretty sure Alliance are less than 50% of the playerbase at this point.

StormpikeCommando
180
5 days ago

Would Saurfang use deception in this way to gain an advantage over someone he looks up to? That seems completely counter to the Orcish value of honor, at least Saurfang's.

You might not be wrong, but just food for thought.

Stnmn
66
5 days ago

You'd think so, but he's a notoriously inconsistent character.

Skirdus
47
5 days ago

notoriously inconsistent character

You just described every WoW character, congratulations.

Blizzard isn't known for its consistency

Highskill64
35
5 days ago

I'd honestly be more disappointed than happy if this 'twist' was real. Instead of 'blizzard did something clever' it would be 'blizzard once again made a character do something they normally wouldn't do.'

Saurfang is the person spouting about Honour. Why would he break his own code instead of fessing up the truth. Suddenly being a hypocrite doesn't seem like consistency.

Alesmord
13
5 days ago

I mean, that would make Saurfang a deeper and more interesting character than he currently is so I do hope that Saurfang set this up to gain Thrall's favor.

MrTastix
9
5 days ago

Saurfang isn't that consistent when it comes to the definition of honor.

But ignoring this I feel that the reality of the situation would cause him to make an exception.

It's not like this is his first uprising. He was on Thrall's side during the Siege of Orgrimmar as well, having spent most of it completely out of the loop in Northrend.

Commando_Joe
27
5 days ago

It's entirely possible that by 'follow them' he meant he was given information that there was an assassination plot against Thrall and he went to talk to him and the rest was just plot timing.

Winterstrife
132
5 days ago

Thrall: *looks at viewers* I am inevitable.

Luskarian
67
5 days ago

I know what it’s like to lose. To feel so desperately that you’re right, yet to fail nonetheless. Dread it. Run from it. Green Jesus still arrives. Or should I say, I have.

The_h0bb1t
26
5 days ago

And I am... Saurfang. Snaps invisible neck

ccbm71586
33
5 days ago

Blizzard kind of forgot that the Alliance exists. /s (but not really)

Eurymedion
15
5 days ago

Warcraft lore has always been very Horde (Orc)-centric. The Horde acts and the Alliance reacts. It doesn't make for very compelling Alliance-side stories when all they do is respond. Like what was once said about Teddy Roosevelt, [the Horde] is the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding, and the baby at every christening.

I play Horde, but I would *love* to see more internal turmoil and drama in the Alliance. They're just so bland. The Alliance was way more dynamic back in Classic with Stormwind in Onyxia's grip, Varian being king-napped and imprisoned on a tiny island, and the whole Defias plot. Then all the interesting stories just petered out.

Far1star
10
5 days ago

Warcraft lore has always been very Horde (Orc)-centric.

I was recently playing through Warcraft 3 agian, I don't see that. The Human, Undead, and Night Elf campaigns have a nice little trilogy to them. It's not LoTR, but it's not bad. The Orc campaign mostly just happens, and has very little effect on the overall story. There cut out entirely in Frozen Thrown, just given a side adventure. I'm not a lore fan by any stretch of the imagination, but the parts that seem to get the most aclame have basically nothing to do with the Orcs. Warcraft 3 or, Wrath of The Lich King.

Xuvial
9
5 days ago

Warcraft lore has always been very Horde (Orc)-centric.

Well there was that one time the story focused heavily on an Alliance prince and his fall, which was arguably the best story that ever came out of Warcraft.

aberthin
9
5 days ago

As someone who has only experienced the alliance half of the story, I spend 80% of my time confused as to what the f is going on. Uldir & this cutscene are especially bad.

SirBaldBear
161
5 days ago

Lovely cinematic, as always.

Now if the alliance could get any attention, that would be lovelier.

ezekieru
67
5 days ago

The Alliance? Alright.

MORE SAURFANG IT IS.

Skirdus
19
5 days ago

"No, I said Allia-"

HOW ABOUT SOME THRALL WHILE WE'RE AT IT

tasteepastree
145
5 days ago

Thrall already hiding his chest transmog. Living in the future

tyguy52
134
5 days ago

Don’t worry, not Garrosh 2.0 btw

StormpikeCommando
74
5 days ago

That's not wrong.

Garrosh did morally grey better, which is surprising.

jalliss
26
5 days ago

Never thought we'd get to the place where we would look back at Garrosh's writing as more subtle than someone else's.

farhawk
135
5 days ago

Actually we disbanded months ago due to budget disagreements. We figured the horde would have realised by now but they are too busy fighting each other to notice.

datsraycists
34
5 days ago

all the budget for the alliance went into duplicating horse mounts

SKULEB4SH
9
5 days ago

Come to the alliance. We have horses. Want normal Horses? Horses with armor? Horses on steroids? Flying non-horse Horses?

Tarasios
49
5 days ago

The Alliance is just Asmongold at this point.

datsraycists
9
5 days ago

hes like the last wow youtuber left right lol

Tarasios
10
5 days ago

He isn't even on youtube anymore, just twitch. He has also started to play eso.

NerysWyn
22
5 days ago

Does the alliance still exist at this point?

It does but blizz wishes it didn't.

cricri3007
114
5 days ago

Man, it's a cinematic about Saurfang being sad about Sylvanas leading the Horde.
again
for the third time in a year

Could they at least pretend to care about the Alliance in any way shape or form?
Like, you know, the people who got genocided at the start of the expac?

Luskarian
64
5 days ago

Oh, you're talking about the unfortunate events that had to happen to have our new main character Saurfang grow emotionally?

Masterjason13
15
5 days ago

But we had a cinematic for the world tree burning. Sure, it was more like comic book panels, and it was focused on sylvannas, but it had a night elf in it!

LordWaffleSocks
194
5 days ago

It's Nagrand yeah. He went back to Outland with his wife and kids

dezix
30
5 days ago

It means "Heart of Draenor" in orcish. I would not let the warlocks take him. My boy would be safe, hidden away by the elders of Garadar.

I made a promise to his mother before she died; that I would cross the Dark Portal alone - whether I lived or died, my son would be safe. Untainted...

Today, I fulfill that promise.

SzotyMAG
61
5 days ago

and Oshu'gun in the background

Skirdus
20
5 days ago

Main universe Nagrand in Outland. Draenor is dealing with some... time issues... at the moment, so presumably Dark Portal on Azeroth was linked up with Outland's Stair of Destiny again

TubbiestPack
10
5 days ago

Listen carefully at the start, its the Nagrand theme.

Skirdus
29
5 days ago
YouDontKnow_22
10
5 days ago

I believe they were supposed to assassinate Saurfang, they were following him. But as soon as they saw Thrall and Saurfang together, they decided to attack them both. Also, they could have easily killed Thrall if he was sleeping or whatever. I think it makes sense.

Artemicionmoogle
8
5 days ago

No one:

Sylvanus: OH TOODLES!

Rivlien
9
5 days ago

Yeah Thrall has a very obvious claim on The Horde if he were to come around and try to reach for it, and Sylvanas is way paranoid enough to think he would. So it is not out of character for her to be pre-emptive.

Tyneic
17
5 days ago

Do you genuinely believe two rogue assassins, that get beat by an unarmed Saurfang, could've beat Thrall, arguably one of the most powerful shamans in history. Yes Thrall isn't on his best with the elements right now, but Saurfang literally killed one of them unarmed.

Do you know how little damage an unarmed attack does?

Two rogue assassins to fight the strongest shaman in history, while she has the capabilities of sending a whole blightthrower army over there?

Yes, Thrall is a threat. But now he's her enemy, rather than just a potential threat.

Why in heavens name would you provoke Thrall rather than just kill him. She could've easily sent a whole squadron of batriders and similar. She could've sent the greatest champions of the horde, but she decides two level 17 rogues are the proper choice to fight Thrall?

Sorry, but again, I just don't see it.

It'd make sense if they were tailing Saurfang and providing information, as already stated. It makes little to no sense that they're there to kill Thrall.

Redguard118
55
5 days ago

When do I unlock "snap bitch-ass Rogue's neck" talent for my warrior? Cause I've wanted that for awhile now.

DotkasFlughoernchen
9
5 days ago

27th of August.

phome83
15
5 days ago

The Anduin one was just him begging Saurfang for help basically lol.

suppARTiv
44
5 days ago

A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

crunchlets
21
5 days ago

We will watch his career with great interest.

suppARTiv
13
5 days ago

No one is ever trully gone. (Evil laugh)

Elunetrain
42
5 days ago

Amazing cinematic. "I followed them"

Zehealingman
26
5 days ago

Meanwhile, at Alliance HQ (TM):

''Auntie Jaina, I really don't know. The throne room would look good in yellow, but if Taelia really want's to move in ...''

''I hate the horde. No I don't. Yes I do. Wait what.''

'' ... ''

''Look what I've found!''

''No Genn, we're not doing another round of fatch. There's important war stuff. Somewhere. Probably. Does anyone know why Tyrande doesn't return my calls anymore?''

''They killed my father. But my mom's okay. And now my brother. And Baine brought him back ... but the horde took everything from me. Well, not everything. I mean I'm sort of the head of state of my people now. But you know. Varian. Eh ...''

''Come on, boy. Throw it!''

''No Genn. Get out ... don't you have a daughter somewhere? Or an actual city that we liberated from the forsaken to rule. You know, that one next to the other city we attacked?''

''I have a daughter ... oh shit, gotta go.''

Anduin sighs and rests his weary head on his new table. Well, table being Mekkatorque. He's finally usefull for something, after all.

''Jaina, please stop it. My head hurts and I haven't had my milk yet.''

''Should I forgive them? They did blow up Theramore. But I'm sort of over it now, no? Mayb -''

''Light shut up. Don't we have something better to do?''

'' ... ''

'' ... ''

''Hahahah I'm just kidding auntie Jaina. Now back to the decorations for the throne room...''

[deleted]
23
5 days ago

Why would Sylvanas even bother sending assassins after Thrall? Hopefully it's just Saurfang making that up on the spot but I doubt Blizzard is that clever.

Also I thought Outland was dying in canon, surprised it's still that green.

StormpikeCommando
16
5 days ago

Maybe Outland can live as a shattered husk as long as the demons stopped destabilizing things more. Which in lore we did, so I guess Outland is kicking it a little.

Or Outland is just Namek, either or.

Hawkectid
17
5 days ago

I think that Outland is more broken than dying and Nagrand is basically the zone in best shape of all of Outland it is propably not so bad there.

ItsHampster
23
5 days ago

Thrall uncovers his hatchet he buried long ago.

"Hang on Varok, I have to take care of something."

Thrall turns his back to Saurfang and shouts to the open field before him, "Babe! BABE! AAGGRAAAA!"

"WHAT?!"

"Me and Saurfang are going to rescue the Horde from Sylvanas!"

"WHAT?!"

"ME AND SAURFANG ARE GOING TO SAVE THE HORDE!"

"SAVE THE HORDE?! FROM WHAT?!"

"Sylvanas!"

"WHY?! WHAT'D SHE DO?!"

"She tried to kill me with ninjas!"

"WHAT?! YOU NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT IT! WHEN DID SHE DO THAT?!"

"Just now!"

"NOW?!"

"Me and Saurfang took care of it! It's cool now!"

"WHAT?!"

"NINJAS ARE DEAD, BABE!"

"OH! I TOLD YOU I DIDN'T LIKE HER!"

"I know babe!"

"I'M JUST SAYING! WHAT TIME ARE YOU COMING BACK!"

"Probably late!"

"YOU HAVE TO BE UP EARLY TO GO TO BE AT OR'GOSH'S CHRISTENING!"

"I told you I don't want to go to that!"

"YOU TOLD MY COUSIN YOU WERE GOING!"

"It's my Saturday! I want to sleep in!"

"YOU CALL HIM, THEN AND TELL HIM YOU'RE NOT GOING!"

"Fine!"

Thrall turns back to Saurfang.

"Alright, let's go kill Or'gosh."

"Whoa! I'm not going to help you kill a child, Thrall!"

"I meant Sylvanas."

"Oh..."

"That kid's a piece of work though. Bit my boy and stole fruit from my farm and lied about it. He gets it from his parents."

"hmm"

"Can't blame me if I would rather sleep in than get up at 8am to go to church on a Saturday."

"Well, you'll probably still be gone by then. We're rescuing the Horde from the clutches of an evil ruler after all. It's gonna be a 3-day affair minimum."

-Tasogare-
24
5 days ago

puts on tinfoil

Those rogues didn't actually come to kill saurfang or thrall, they were with saurfang and he was telling the truth about following them because it was his plan for them to go together. All they had to do was pretend to be dead afterward. Paid actor LUL

bleftbart
13
5 days ago

Black flag! Black flag! The blight is turning the murlocs gay!

MjrLeeStoned
18
5 days ago

Saurfang's grin at the end got me.

He's been obsessively depressed since Wrath.

To see that little glimmer of hope come across his face really did me in.

Darksoldierr
18
5 days ago

Is Sarufang now poisoned or we ignore the green blades stabbing him few times?

Skirdus
48
5 days ago

Daggers don't poison Saurfang's blood, Saurfang's blood poisons daggers

headRN
17
5 days ago

The rogues hit chance was to low to apply poison. 😉

Iroex
11
5 days ago

He parries them with his wrist armour from the looks of it.

Tales90
18
5 days ago

So Sylvanas trying to kill Baine to bring all the other Horde leader against her?

trying to kill Thrall/Saurfang for the same Reason?

the story so far makes no sense for me , she could just do nothing and baine/saurfang would look bad for working with the alliance against her

PirateBound
19
5 days ago

Totally not MoP guys

Skai1515
23
5 days ago

'You and I don't get to hide"

Such a good line

dldallas
16
5 days ago

Oh hey fantastic, another cinematic focusing on the Horde!

Great cinematic, glad to see them acknowledging Outland, but god damn can we get away from the green guys for even a second?

TriangleSunflowers
14
5 days ago

I'm sad Blizzard won't ever acknowledge how Saurfang was "just following orders" at yet another genocide by the Horde while Saurfang whines about honor afterwards. He's a villain at this point as is the rest of the Horde who tut and sigh at the murderous, genocidal actions of Sylvanas who blights everything around her into a radioactive green wasteland.

Saurfang becomes leader of the Horde. Thrall dies in some heroic feat because Metzen retired. That's what I see happening.

chronobeard
40
5 days ago

I'm sad Blizzard won't ever acknowledge how Saurfang was "just following orders" at yet another genocide by the Horde

That’s literally the whole point of the Old Soldier cinematic. It’s the basis for his entire character arc in BfA. He’s not just railing against Sylvanas. He knows he messed up massively, and it drove him to the point of attempting suicide before Zappyboy stopped him.

Saying Blizzard won’t acknowledge it is super disingenuous.

PontidaSmarti
11
5 days ago

both female undead

youknowthatdude
15
5 days ago

Is that a special weapon in lore he picked up or just random wep?

beepborpimajorp
39
5 days ago

It's a Frostwolf axe, like his father's.

LordWaffleSocks
20
5 days ago

I think it's his dad's axe.

Coziestpigeon2
12
5 days ago

Fuck that was cool.

Cinematics like this make me happy that I've finally started a horde character. It will be nice to actually get to play with some involvement to the over-arching story.

Glumbot_2
12
5 days ago

Those rogues are absolute garbage, have they even played this game before? No sapping or stunning, and terrible use of vanish, absolute trash players

phome83
23
5 days ago

Sap doesnt work against Boss mobs.

KarneBG
13
5 days ago

My boy Thrall's back! Plus Sylvanas tried to have him assassinated? That's bonkers

Nadkon
12
5 days ago

This cinematic came out of nowhere
Like Sylvanas willing to kill Thrall who had nothing to do with her for years apparently

WrennFarash
14
5 days ago

I'm no one's savior.

Blizzard doing sweet jumps off that fourth wall there.

Anastrace
14
5 days ago

So....was this Sylvanas's way of dragging Thrall into this? Because sending two people to kill an extremely powerful shaman in broad daylight is just really, really stupid.

vaminion
8
5 days ago

"I followed them".

You done goofed, Sylvanas.

SurrealKarma
9
5 days ago

Am I the only one disappointed?

They just sort of stand around, having no interesting dialogue. It's punchline writing all over again.

Neat to see rogues in action, though. Never thought stealth was literally you vanishing. I thought it was just a mind trick, like Shaw "unstealthing" behind Genn in the in-engine cinematic where Anduin first sees Azerite.

Z0MBGiEF
11
5 days ago

Blizzard, if this is a Cinematic Metaphor of you tracking me down to where I've been hiding and playing other games for the past few months, convincing me to resubscribe to BfA then it's worked...

throwingitawayehey
10
5 days ago

I’m honestly so tired of seeing orcs all the damn time. Can we have a cinematic without Sylvanas, Saurfang and other orcs for once? No we can’t, the Horde bias is real jesus fucking christ.

dmSolymos
8
5 days ago

The script is so fucking awful:

Why would Saurfang use deception on his former warchief when he had a crisis defending Silvanas against malfürion?

So inconsistent

generalguan4
10
5 days ago

What did that mark under the eye on the female rogue mean?

Dwarmin
13
5 days ago

Looked like a V. :P

If I to head-canon it? She was one the Forsaken Deathstalker Assassins. The "V" was actually the guild symbol for the highest ranking of them who have served back during the foundations, since Varimathras was their former leader. Its possible they still have the sign, or actually can't/won't get rid of it as a mark of shame.

I guess they were either formerly disgraced Forsaken sent on a suicide mission by Sylvanas, or merely opportunistic Forsaken with shame in their past, serving their dark lady without her direct orders.

throwingitawayehey
11
5 days ago

Anyone who still says the devs aren’t Horde biased is either a fool, blind or both.

nrutas
9
5 days ago

M O R A L L Y G R E Y

This shit is getting old blizzard.

SenorDangerwank
10
5 days ago

Oh come on! It's getting REALLY hard to be a Sylvanas apologist...