RedSarc
1808
6 days ago

Orwell knows what the 1% is doing. And, so too did the founding fathers see into the future by looking at their past.

“[...] when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

-A passage from the U.S. Declaration of Independence

aerovado
404
6 days ago

And yet the people, especially of reddit and /r/Futurology, keep clamoring to give the government more and more power and wonder why it gets abused.

Fools

shubzy123
207
6 days ago

China is the best example.

aerovado
118
6 days ago

Thank you! From their concentration camps, "reeducation camps" of Western Chinese, social credit scores, no freedom of speech, etc etc.

BB4602
84
6 days ago

The social credit score is literally is an episode out of black mirror and that show is so crazy with all the different dystopian views.

justaguyinthebackrow
26
6 days ago

It's also an episode of Community.

lincolnlawyer08
5
6 days ago

Do you remember which one?

ZummerzetZider
16
6 days ago

Miaow miaow beans

charlierhustler
16
6 days ago

The Meow-Meow Beans episode. I don't know the name or episode number but I have now given you the tools to succeed.

StarChild413
2
6 days ago

App Development And Condiments (I think it was S5, don't remember the episode number)

charlierhustler
1
6 days ago

I'll keep your secret New Beans.

haisdk
2
6 days ago

Down and out in the magic kingdom by Corey doctorow explores this in a utopian/dystopian society

IM_KB
1
6 days ago

Their social credit system is nothing like the western media plays it out to be.

https://mobile.twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/975536363364696064?lang=en

eqleriq
-1
6 days ago

concentration camps aren't much different than work ghettoes in the US

reeducation camps aren't needed when you indoctrinate people in a police state.

social credit score is no different than a social security number and digital medical record.

no freedom of speech? you can test how free your speech is pretty easily, you just don't exercise it because you know when the men with guns visit you it's not a discussion. but i guess talking shit about the powers that be is.. useful?

aerovado
7
6 days ago

You are either lying or dillusional. I don't know which is worse.

Please re-educate yourself before moving further. I recommend a grade school history book for concentration camps before you make such a grave mistake again by understating the horrors people faced in WWII and in these Chinese camps. For Social Credit score please see any article that's been posted here.

Khmer_Orange
5
6 days ago

You forgot the big one: your credit score

And also the consumer profiles being built by corporations from your every search, purchase, or just basic interaction with a website... Like Reddit

Voyaga2
1
6 days ago

You forgot the big one: your credit score

I mean....it's literally just a measure of how likely it is that you'll pay back loans...right? That is fine.

And also the consumer profiles being built by corporations from your every search, purchase, or just basic interaction with a website

True, but this has nuance as well. You probably understand what I mean so I agree

Khmer_Orange
1
6 days ago

It's more than that, it has some serious racial bias based on differences in intergenerational wealth transfer, and it has a major impact on where you can live. It's one of the tools for continuing segregation through more subtle means. Which is not to say it doesn't have other functions but that's an important outcome

The point is it's all entirely undemocratic but because it's done through private corporations that somehow makes it okay

Voyaga2
1
6 days ago

It's more than that, it has some serious racial bias based on differences in intergenerational wealth transfer, and it has a major impact on where you can live. It's one of the tools for continuing segregation through more subtle means. Which is not to say it doesn't have other functions but that's an important outcome

I'm not to familiar with the data so forgive me for some questions. Is the outcome due to the credit score or is it due to cultural differences? Like, if I'm trying to make money, I'd segment the population into regions, analyze those specific region's habits, and determine the optimized support for them based on that data. I'd also analyze the overarching cultural differences to see the odds and implement that as well. It seems like they're just following the data they have and determining thereafter...correct me if. I'm wrong

The point is it's all entirely undemocratic but because it's done through private corporations that somehow makes it okay

I don't think it makes it okay. Things can always be better, but culture takes time to level out. I'd consider it unwise to run a company and not analyze what's going on under certain regions...especially if there is a lot of money at stake and if probability is exactly what you are dealing with

Edit: again I'm not too familiar with all of this. I can't study everything, after all. I really don't understand the whole "they're suppressed and being held in one area" idea. I get it's an issue in the short term, but it seems like it's level out in the long run....like I get people want to change it quicker but I don't see any specific way to (or a combination of routes).

Like, I don't even know what to make of the "black people commit more crimes statistic". What's that stat about?

Khmer_Orange
2
6 days ago

The areas they are forced to live in are bad school districts because they are funded by property tax, they are much more likely to be food deserts, and the housing itself very often contains environmental health risks that suppress later life outcomes. A credit score has nothing to do with providing "optimal support" to renters and borrowers, it's entirely for the benefit of people who already have enough (landlords,banks, businesses)

SlickNick137
50
6 days ago

Not locking up our citizens? Isn’t our incarceration rate like one of if not the highest?

cornysheep
10
6 days ago

Fair point! In comparison to the Chinese maybe it’s not as bad... but maybe it is. God damn..

in6seconds
47
6 days ago

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/incarceration-rates-by-country/

Not only is America #1 in prisoners per capita, we have more total prisoners than China, despite having a considerably lower population. (China may have many more undocumented prisoners I suppose)

As an American this is embarrassing. Land of the Free, indeed.

adviqx
25
6 days ago

It amazes me how many people don't know this stat or overlook it as if it isn't meaningful by itself.

Combine that with the fact that it is legal for prisoners to be slaves, and we have arguably the largest slave colony in the world.

OwlsRavensnCrow
1
6 days ago

A few hundred years and nothing changes

adviqx
0
6 days ago

Thingd have changed, but just enough to keep people complacent.

PeteCorn
2
6 days ago

We love our 'freedom' but dont understand the etymology of what that word actually means. It refers to the dominion over freya - the divine feminine/beauty/fertility/love.

TheBlessedFaggot
1
6 days ago

Huh? How's is that relevant to anything?

new-it-grad
1
6 days ago

China just kills the really bad ones

bertiebees
2
6 days ago

So does the U.S

new-it-grad
2
6 days ago

I mean no trail no stats

peacemaker2121
1
6 days ago

Don't forget, freedom can be tyne rules around your neck that unfree never had to worry about. Like say, when tyne wife gives you all rope you just to prove her right in the process.

VitriolicViolet
1
6 days ago

its what happens when private industry runs both major parties. everything is privatised and made for-profit, resulting in the US medical industry, the prison system, US media, hospitality workers living on tips and walmart employees needing food stamps.

_fuck_me_sideways_
1
6 days ago

At least we're not harvesting their organs

DexonTheTall
1
6 days ago

China's re-education camps wouldn't be counted among their prisoner population in self reported statistics. They don't consider them prisoners they consider them students.

spoonguy123
1
6 days ago

Your incarceration rate is the highest by a MASSIVE margin

SilatGuy
20
6 days ago

History shows they wait until they are ready to take complete control then they strike at one time with mass arrests, purges and executions of whoever they deem a threat to the state..

A possibly corrupt government having this kind of means of control and oversight should be very worrying to anyone who enjoys their freedom.

medicmongo
14
6 days ago

Which, and I’m sure I’ll get flamed to hell for this, is why the Second Amendment is important

SilatGuy
15
6 days ago

Someone else posted this response and deleted it before i could respond agreeing. Perhaps out of being scared of being shitted on and downvoted.

Much harder to oppress people who have the means to resist. Guns alone arent the only thing that makes freedom possible but its an essential part of it.

There is a reason occupiers and dictatorships get rid of rights to own arms.. it has been this way through out history and its for a reason.

Couple examples are the spaniard occupations of places like the philippines, mexico ect. Where owning a sword was punishable by death if you werent of a certain class.

The nazis collected the weapons as soon as they took power using their countries national registry. Jews who survived the holocaust have said that they had wished they knew the direness of the situation they were in and had kept their weapons to resist and make it harder to be st their oppressors mercy.

medicmongo
5
6 days ago

Right. Like I’m not saying that a sudden influx of AR-15s would help Hong Kong stabilize and possibly throw off the yoke of oppression...

But it becomes a whole lot harder to trample on my rights when you might get fuckin’ shot for the effort.

And I get it. That’s a pretty dismal view to have. Maybe a bit arrogant and antagonistic. But that’s the reality.

Becomes a whole lot harder to target Muslims when the Uighurs can put up a fight. Makes it harder to tear gas reporters... when they can put up a fight. Forcibly entering my home for an illegal search becomes a super risky endeavor. Killing me for some imagined capital offense becomes more difficult when my friends are armed to the teeth.

The basic civilized freedoms that we as Americans take for granted are at the behest of the backing of the second amendment. Governments have an easier time oppressing a people when there’s not a significant disparity of arms. Oh yes, here comes the inevitable “you can’t fight a tank with an AR” commentary.

You can’t effectively oppress a civilian populace, especially in an urban environment, from the cockpit of an M1 Abrams or an F35, or even a trailer commanding a goddamned Predator. You can’t annihilate that which you seek dominance over. You can’t nuke a city if you want the benefits of effectively owning the city.

You need jack boots on the ground, abusing people up close and personal, for it to be personal and terrifying. Tanks are relatively easy targets in an urban environment. Vertical spaces are not their friends. That’s what squads of soldiers out of an APC or Humvee are for.

When tear-gassing a peaceful protest in Philadelphia might be met with a hail of fire, you’re gonna think it over again.

KingBarbarosa
-1
6 days ago

if the Hong Kong protestors had guns it would be tianenmen square pt2. also the government has been fucking us for decades, why aren’t the 2A folks doing something about it?

medicmongo
8
6 days ago

Because we’re not violent extremists, despite every claim to the contrary. And the government and anti gun crowd do it so incrementally that it becomes hard to notice or fight against or get riled up about. Especially to the point of drawing blood.

We don’t want to go to war with our countrymen. We don’t want blood.

There’s four boxes you should use: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. In that order. Violent upheaval should be the absolute last resort.

somethingworthwhile
1
6 days ago

The book Red Moon by Kim Stanley Robinson touches on this. China and the U.S. are basically gravitating/trending to the same end game. Which I would say is just basic devolution to oligarchy but coming from opposite side of the spectrum.

I dunno I’m not too knowledgeable on this so if anyone hd anything to add/correct, please do.

eqleriq
0
6 days ago

no, china is the worst example. they're an unskilled, useless population (china was basically successfully captured by japan, eh) run by a ruling class that still adheres to a nationalistic ideal over decadent profiteering.

the difference is that in any western philosophy, the socialist/communist ideals fail because of corruption that allow the ruling class to profit and enrich themselves over the people. The immovable object there is when the ruling class seeks to preserve ideals rather than enrich anything.

Sure, we can focus on the racism and poverty but those are residues of a strong nationalist ideal.

Absolutely no different than how many sick and homeless we have in the west when people are multi billionaires (or how many spoiled children don't like their position under the thumbs of the rich and successful, yet they fuel their coffers directly).

Lexsteel11
65
6 days ago

Here’s what my problem is with it- we all now know the US government is collecting at least metadata on all citizens’ communications. We also know that IOT devices like Alexa and Siri are always listening and even 3rd party companies can listen to recorded audio data from people in the same room as one of those devices...

So my question is- how the fuck are there so many unsolved murders these days? Did the victim have an iPhone in their pocket or were they killed in their home with an Alexa in the room? How is this data not at least getting used to benefit society in that way if it’s already being collected?

PathToEternity
38
6 days ago

So my question is- how the fuck are there so many unsolved murders these days?

Man the government is not going to fess up to listening to people through their phones just to solve the case of how cousin Cody got murdered.

Not even saying I'm 100% onboard with the idea that the government is listening to everyone (or at least recording; that's a hell of a lot of data to store let alone sift through), but even if they are the local DA isn't going to get access to that just to prosecute mundane criminal cases.

Lexsteel11
10
6 days ago

We’ll understanding is the gov can listen in on anything with a mic any time they want, but only metadata is recorded. BUT, recent news stories make it sound like private IOT device companies like Amazon store audio recordings (I don’t know to what extent they leap the data though) which you would imagine could be subpoenaed by a court and wouldn’t divulge government secrets

NXTangl
15
6 days ago

I think the secret is they don't technically store any audio, but speech-to-text data isn't audio anymore.

at1445
6
6 days ago

That, and I highly doubt they are actually "recording" everything. They might be hearing everything, then parsing it for keywords to sell ads with, then dumping it.

There's not really a benefit for Amazon to keep everything I say...but there would be a benefit for them to hear me talking about wanting a new Mustang or pair of Nike's, and storing that small bit of info on a profile about me.

Lexsteel11
2
6 days ago

That’s a good point

aerovado
21
6 days ago

I believe they have used Alexa or something to the effect to solve a murder. I want to say it was in New Hampshire.

Lexsteel11
31
6 days ago

I think I know the case you’re talking about and it was because the victim yelled like “Alexa call 911” and they heard the whole attack, but my understanding is that passive listening records have not been supplied for things like that. I could be wrong though but can’t find anything

Orngog
16
6 days ago

The first time the UK government admitted they could locate people from cell towers (this was pre gps) was in the case of the Soham murders. And only then because they couldn't seal the case without it.

WhiteyB
3
6 days ago

you mean Alexa is not actually spying on the public?

SamanKunans02
10
6 days ago

Most murders don't offer many keywords which fit into user's consumer profile, so the exchange offers little to the marketing department, as technology has yet to advance to the level where the unit can identify an unscheduled user entering it's territory.

aerovado
5
6 days ago

That's what they want you to believe [cue suspense music]

ConfidentIssue0
1
6 days ago

She won’t know something was weird immediately.

AccomplishedExtent2
1
6 days ago

it's so weird how such a thing?!

Bart-o-Man
1
6 days ago

I read an article saying that passive listening records were used in a homicide case- no callout to Alexa. Passive listening has to record a certain amount to make it work, so some data is there for some length of time. On the flip side, full data storage is not practical or desired due to expense.

Wants-NotNeeds
8
6 days ago

“Hey Alexa, who killed the maid? Was it the Gardener?”

ede91
8
6 days ago

Because they are not recording. However funny people think they are, these devices are not (active) wiretaps. They only record voice when they are (mistakenly) activated. If they would than it would have been proven long ago as both its activity and network traffic is very easy to monitor.

Do these companies misuse and mishandle personal data constantly? Yes. Are they listening on your everyday life? No.

Lexsteel11
13
6 days ago

I replied to another comment with this as well- Facebook dispelled the rumors they are listening to push you ads for things you talk about by saying it’s often based on device proximity; if you arrive at a coffee shop and a device belonging to another Facebook user arrives at the same time and depart at the same time, and that person googles lawnmowers after they leave the coffee shop, if you are friends on Facebook, they’ll assume you met that person and discussed lawnmowers and then you’ll get ads for them even though YOU didn’t search for lawnmowers yourself.

Point being- even if they aren’t recording, device proximity is huge; I always see court cases where they locate where a suspect was at a certain time in general using cell tower triangulation, but that isn’t very exact, but if Facebook holds device proximity data in relation to their other users, I’d imagine that could help pinpoint what phone was right next to the victim, right?

EmptyPoet
6
6 days ago

You are dead wrong and spreading misinformation. Network traffic is actually incredibly easy to monitor. It was recently confirmed by Microsoft that Xbox devices had recorded and sent conversations to Microsoft.

Many apps on your phone has access to your mic and camera, and many are allowed to use them at any time without notifying you. The companies can and have been caught recording conversations. I’m not saying they record you 24/7, but you’d be a fool to believe companies wouldn’t utilize this technology to their benefit as much as they possibly can.

Listen to what Snowden have said.

Bury your head in the sand all you want, but don’t come here saying they’re not doing it.

ede91
2
6 days ago

Let me start with that no, not 'many apps' have access to your camera and mic. At least on Android you can and you should control what apps have access to these functions. Either by not giving them permission when they ask for it, or taking that away later in Settings > Permissions, listed either by app or by permission. It is sad that not many people know about and use the permission system, it has its flaws but it is an important security system any smart phone user should be aware of.

I'm not wrong and I'm not spreading misinformation, which funnily enough you yourself accept in your second paragraph. I will hazard that you completely misunderstood my comment, or read it wrong.

My point is exactly that network traffic is easy to monitor. If these incredibly popular smart assistant devices would be uploading every single or even most conversations (that they are not supposed to) to servers, than there would be massive amounts of proof against them. Nowadays there are complete commercial solutions to analyze network traffic with cute and user friendly UIs, there is very little CS understanding required to do it, and there are many hobbyists and professionals doing it actively.

What Snowden talks about a lot is that every personal data that we give over to these companies is dangerous, not that they covertly spying on every single user. Personal data, like you talking to your personal assistant, which obviously the company will have at least some (usually total) access. What he is saying has its merits, but the reality is that the biggest danger is that the data WILL leak out, even if these companies would take security seriously. Having these concentrated databases is a massive incentive for attackers to go after (let that be 'criminal' or governmental).

If you want to claim that these are used for surveillance or that they record everything they can for whatever nefarious purposes, than bring proper proof. Accidental recordings, shitty handling of (personal) data (like the last big 'scandal') are completely different topics. We need to fight that, but claiming that these things are there to spy on you and that they record every conversation and such is just not true and removes the conversation from the actual topic, which is personal data and personal data handling.

subieshifa
1
6 days ago

Lmao... where do you get your information from?

holydragonnall
7
6 days ago

Because the usage of that data is usually not legal. There have been serious crimes that the prosecution had to drop or lose in court because they literally cannot produce or talk about their methods of gathering some of the evidence (usually Stingrays, which everyone knows exists but police departments have to sign a contract stating they will not talk about them or acknowledge their existence in any way).

Lexsteel11
4
6 days ago

Right- that’s my point on why it’s frustrating. Like I understand if the tech is classified, but like after Snowden came forward with everything he knew about and then the gov admitted that the tech exists and has been collecting data, shouldn’t that open the floodgates to use that data to solve cold cases or help innocent people in jail prove their innocence?

justaguyinthebackrow
8
6 days ago

99% of local DA/ prosecutors have no interest in admitting fault and helping innocent people go free. They actively fight against exculpatory evidence being admitted in court. They're definitely not going to use their potentially illegal technology to help them. And the fed gov has no interest in local cases.

VitriolicViolet
1
6 days ago

i mean it could but thats not what its for. the people who store this shit want to use it to control people (there are studies that show that 95% of people alter their behaviour if they know they are being watched, not by much but enough that they are not being 'natural') and for marketing/advertising purposes

Lexsteel11
1
6 days ago

Right- which is why courts should step up and make them provide their data they are collecting on citizens. No way would they give it on their own.

riderbackreddit
8
6 days ago

Well you need a warrant to wire tap someone so spying on them in secret I don't think you can legally use that in court. And I watched that Edward Snowden on jre he said they have the data but arnt going through it all or don't have the manpower for that, but it's available and saved. They probably only use it for big targets and pretend like they didn't use it.

Besides if it was being used to convict criminals people would riot in the streets. As of now it feels like nothing's happening, so people don't care and that's how they like it.

dzrtguy
14
6 days ago

The masses seem to either not know or deny that the private sector can submit anything to law enforcement they want. If there's convenient data being donated to private companies and there's a bounty on the information leading to... That's a profitable business. Telecommunications are a utility hence the need for warrants on utility, but if you donate that data to a third party, they can do with that whatever they want. Alexa and siri aren't mandatory. They're also not a regulated utility. They also have bizarre terms of service which are constantly changing.

Lexsteel11
6
6 days ago

Right- that sums it up pretty nicely and I honestly don’t know where I stand myself on it all.

It’s just weird to see murder documentaries where they even mention utilizing the geolocation of a murder victims phone to find the crime scene, but then on the flip side I read an article where Facebook has tried to dispel the rumors that they’re always listening to push ads after you talk about some item to a friend and then get ads for it, by saying essentially “well we saw your location arriving at a coffee shop at the same time as your friend so-and-so, and then you both left at the same time and shortly after your friend googled ‘lawnmowers’ so then we will push you ads for lawnmowers as well because we assume you talked about lawnmowers with your friend”. Which is creepy but my point is if they store records to determine device proximity, couldn’t they use that to find a murderer? The only data I ever see get used for that is a general triangulation of cell towers from the gov which is not precise enough often times.

___totes_adorbs_x_
1
6 days ago

FB doesn’t give a shit if you’re being murdered in the street. They’ve made that abundantly clear. They want to sell you a Chevrolet and some Patron. That’s why they listen.

Lexsteel11
1
6 days ago

No shit- that’s why a court would/should order them to fork it over. I don’t think any of us believe they’d just come forward on their own.

Orngog
1
6 days ago

Because Alexa can't record unless you say it's name...

EquivalentCarpenter
1
6 days ago

Because "walk" to what is shown.

Hrolfir
1
6 days ago

Sadly passive listening files isn’t approved of any participating party so it’s not legal evidence to use in courts.

A function many people are not aware of on their phone is rapidly pressing the power button will arm an emergency call and sound a siren while providing emergency services your exact location. If people do this while in certain circumstances it most certainly would help deal with situations like your thinking.

Siri can be turned off and doesn’t listen to everything in the room. You do this by turning off the function for “Hey Siri”. Apple advertises this, do I believe that it isn’t still listening? No. I do trust apple more than google though, neither farther than I can throw a person however and it certainly isn’t far.

Edit: you can try the emergency function yourself. You have 3 seconds to press end call before it goes through. It’s very loud though.

Lexsteel11
2
6 days ago

Haha im aware of the function- I was in Greece this year and my iPhone X started malfunctioning and it kept calling the police and I couldn’t communicate that I wasn’t trying to call them haha

MudButt2000
1
6 days ago

That just opened my camera....

sego666
1
6 days ago

Perhaps your assumption about what the government is collecting isn't entirely accurate.

Lexsteel11
1
6 days ago

Government admits now to the metadata the collect en mass but private companies collect much more data on their users

28648487527954
1
6 days ago

You can’t use collected data in a legal proceeding without first admitting that said data was illegally obtained.

It’s not worth it to them.

Lexsteel11
1
6 days ago

But weren’t these collection programs disclosed after the Snowden leaks? I’m sure there are still so many programs not disclosed, but I’d argue that if they can use that data to assassinate American citizens abroad without a trial (which they have done and admit to doing) then citizens should at least benefit from these programs too

Thrwawayrandoasshole
1
6 days ago

Because to solve a murder and use that data as evidence means it would have to be introduced in court as such. And since you need a warrant to wiretap, in all likelihood that evidence would be thrown out. At least that's my uneducated guess, IANAL

Lexsteel11
0
6 days ago

You’re anal?

Thrwawayrandoasshole
1
6 days ago

I Am Not A Lawyer.

Also, I am anal.

bertiebees
1
6 days ago

How is this data not at least getting used to benefit society in that way if it’s already being collected?

Because goal of mass surveillance is not and never has been to "benefit society". It's to protect existing concentrations of power from whoever that power considers the enemy(which is usually the domestic population. Especially the "dangerous classes" of the domestic population. Which in the U.S 9.9/10 times means non whites and the poors.)

VitriolicViolet
1
6 days ago

because its not about safety of the benefit of citizens.

This is the infrastructure needed for 'surveillance capitalism' to take off. data is more valuable than oil and everyone has shitloads of it. by vacuuming it up through every app, every website, every social media account etc and adding it to what the government collects (census data, tax returns, employment history, medical history) you have a total picture of every person, where they work, who they talk to, their opinions/political position, wealth, personality traits and so on.

The excuse is safety, but the reason is a combination of control of the people and ultra-marketing (imagine how hard it would be to not buy shit if advertisers had complete access to all info on you).

The West wants Chinas social credit score, mainly for making selling shit even more low effort. as an added bonus they can also use it to watch everyone.

Lexsteel11
1
6 days ago

Right- that’s not why they collect it but should be ordered to hand it over if it can help in investigations just like they order ISPs

Tuchishep124
1
6 days ago

Because the people who are involved in the dragnet surveillance aren’t the local police force or even the FBI.

They didn’t even come out and admit it they were doing it. It took whistleblowers for us to even know about it, you think they’re just gonna share that information?

dzrtguy
0
6 days ago

The dead don't "matter" to the system. If they mattered, there would be "justice"

theyarecomingforthat
0
6 days ago

here is a nice thought for you, i would say without a doubt our government knows exactly what happened with flight mh370 but they wont say anything because it would give away our capability's to other countries. Russia probably knows as well and obviously china knows....

Lexsteel11
1
6 days ago

Right. That’s my point and why It’s frustrating that they have it but sit on it

leafydan
30
6 days ago

Let’s just assume you’re talking about politics in the United States. Power in the hands of government isn’t nearly as detrimental as power in the hands of corporations and a few individuals. Oversight by the people can steer a governmental body straight and when that doesn’t work, form a new government.

RedSarc
24
6 days ago

1% hi-jacked the gov.

The revolution will not be televised.

thewurstunicorn
7
6 days ago

But protect muh freedums!

I am by no means a conservative, but I hate how much control our government has over people.

aerovado
-1
6 days ago

Then you're south on the political grid, as am I.

LGCJairen
8
6 days ago

Dunno about futurology but most places i hang about on Reddit are decidedly critical on the government.

That said I agree with you and its only gonna get worse as inequality increases and people get more fed up. Those in power will become increasingly paranoid and more and more of these kind of technologies will be employed

inm808
1
6 days ago

inequality increases

I see an argument all over Reddit to take all the rich peoples money and redistribute it. Which sounds good on surface level

But I don’t get it. Presumably it would be the government in charge of handling this new surplus of trillions (?) of dollars. People already think the gov is too powerful and full of corrupt politicians

Why do they simultaneously trust them with that monumental task

Zuck gave 100M to newark and it essentially disapeared overnight

flewidity
7
6 days ago

So we should give that power to unchecked billionaires instead?

aerovado
1
6 days ago

You're confusing less government with anarchy.

Ceccoso1
6
6 days ago

But I have nOtHiNg tO hIDe!

retardedearthling
3
6 days ago

I mean what's your alternate approach? Overthrow the gov and get a new one with people who are just as capable to be corrupt? Give corps more power as if they wont abuse it?

We have to not GIVE gov more power but correct the faults within it and push it in a direction we want. Remember the gov is mainly made up of people just like you. The gov isn't some god separate from the country as most seem to see it.

rossimus
3
6 days ago

It's of course not always that simple. There are some powers I would like the government to have, and others I would not like it to have. I want it to regulate business and banking for example, breaking up monopolies and preventing banking collapses. But I also don't want it using facial recognition to track me.

aerovado
0
6 days ago

It's nearly impossible for a company to gain a monopoly if they go about everything legally, and there are only a few laws that need to be in place for it. One that needs to be better enforced is "mergers" like with the telecoms.

Most monopolies occur, at at least a state level, because of government.

It's been very rare for a monopoly to occur naturally.

Many of the banking issues we've recently had are due to governments forcing banks to hand out loans to consumers who likely wouldn't be able to pay back.

samyazaa
2
6 days ago

History repeats itself

aerovado
5
6 days ago

But this time it will work since they weren't doing it right

samyazaa
4
6 days ago

Isn’t that what people say about communism? Or was it socialism? I always get the two mixed up. I’m terrible.

czech1
2
6 days ago

Yeah, everyone knows you give the power to giant corporations for a successful future, not the stinking government. The fools!!

aerovado
-1
6 days ago

Voting with your wallet hurts corporations more than your vote counts in most democracies.

I'm confused why people even think there's a difference. The government is like a corporation you are forced to patronize by threat of force. I hate heartless corporations as much as the next person but at least they don't send men with guns to your house if you stop paying for their services.

czech1
-1
6 days ago

I'm also confused why people think there's a difference. Either way you have unimaginable wealthy controlling the rest of society. Voting with your wallet does as much as actual voting. Both are controlled by marketing or the media and your individual "vote" has no impact. If corporations/ the elite didn't have a government controlled police force to do their bidding then they would have private forces, I'm not sure that's an improvement.

aerovado
1
6 days ago

With dollar voting you pick a different company and the other company doesn't have as much money to function then they adapt or fall apart. The amount of companies that remain in the Fortune Top 100 for more than 10 years is laughable.

czech1
1
6 days ago

And you can donate your dollars to the candidate of your choice. Your candidate will have more money to campaign with and get elected. Other politicians will have to adapt or lose support.

The top 100 rotates because companies are consolidating, not because a few corporations don't run the entire country.

aerovado
1
6 days ago

No they're falling out. Please look at the Fortune companies over the last 10 years plus as a reference which I previously stated. They even provide up and down arrows so you can tell the direction. Over 90% aren't from being bought up.

czech1
1
6 days ago

Sorry, you're correct about the fortune 100 but that's concentrated to the end of the list. The corps at the top of the list shift around but not by much. Our defacto oligarchs, at the top of the list, that influence our laws and politics own hundreds of brands and it's impossible to boycott them all.

GilmerDosSantos
0
6 days ago

the same people that want more government readily admit our government is corrupt. It makes absolutely no sense

urbanfirestrike
5
6 days ago

It’s almost like the state is under the control of one class while the majority of the people aren’t of that class.

Maybe a class struggle or something?

Orngog
2
6 days ago

Lack of oversight is the problem.

GilmerDosSantos
3
6 days ago

no. lack of transparency is the problem.

redditstealsyourdata
2
6 days ago

We should always be skeptical about the exercise of power, but let's be careful not to confuse expanding the scope of public services with the expansion of unchecked/unsupervised policing powers.

Phenomenon101
1
6 days ago

Careful, the /Futurology dickheads will come in mass and downvote you.

Cyaed
1
6 days ago

It's not government power that's the problem. It's the lack of accountability proportionate to it.

Harbinger2nd
0
6 days ago

Because government is at least accountable to its constituency. Government is the only force strong enough to counter the private business interests actively raping the world.

bq909
0
6 days ago

Reddit wants higher taxes and for government to take over industry, any time you oppose these ideas you get downvoted to hell here. I’d rather Jeff Bezos and Elon musk have my information than these scumbags in Washington.

CensorThis111
-1
6 days ago

I really enjoy the whole "herd immunity" fear porn.

As if giving these institutions free access to your body will make us all safer, lol.

FloodMoose
409
6 days ago

It's a crazy conspiracy theory, but I think the idea of the breakaway civilization holds a degree of merit considering the 1%, who have more money than can be spent in 10 lifetimes, have proven time and time again to be absolutely above law and accountability.

Always be mindful, resistance is out here.

steroid_pc_principal
96
6 days ago

What is a breakaway civilization, specifically? That billionaires will just start a new civilization on Mars?

Golden_Lynel
150
6 days ago

If an economy has only billionaires, everyone is poor, so probably not

steroid_pc_principal
49
6 days ago

No they would hire scientists to build it for them and be their workforce.

Golden_Lynel
62
6 days ago

Scientists =/= construction crew. They would need to hire a lot more than that in general anyways

steroid_pc_principal
19
6 days ago

True true I guess I’m saying billionaires would still be as rich if not more so.

StonedSpinoza
16
6 days ago

Scientist + Robots

rosscmpbll
15
6 days ago

You are both forgetting most of this could be automated in the near future with sci/tech.

Wiggie49
3
6 days ago

acy theory, but I think the idea of the

breakaway civilization

holds a degree of merit considering the 1%, who have more money than can be spent in 10 lifetimes, have proven time and time again to be absolutely above law and accountability.

Automation is pushing out more jobs than any immigration, illegal or otherwise, could.

flexdevio
2
6 days ago

No... it’s creating new jobs. Not jobs where you can sit on your ass and get paid minimum wage. Not jobs where you can get a degree at an expensive college in art history and be qualified. Jobs where people just need to have an open mind and be willing to learn something new. Sounds terrible right?

Wiggie49
2
6 days ago

I’m talking about in regards to a dystopian future run by the rich to escape the planet. They wouldn’t need to bring middle or lower class workers. They would have an automated working class at that point.

In today’s society automation is pushing our middle class up to become a more educated working class. This is a good thing imo because our society should be moving forward away from factory working. The problem is that the working class of the industrial generation have little chance of getting up to speed. There needs to be a better means of transitioning them.

Blitzer407
1
6 days ago

I really hate being that guy, but have you ever heard of Andrew Yang? Literally that entire last paragraph is one of his primary problems he is trying to solve. Before you dismiss him, listen to a long form interview with someone like Joe Rogan, H3H3, etc.

MaceroniMan666
1
6 days ago

Lmao tell me how it will create plenty of new jobs when eventually the robots will manufcature and repair other robots. It will create a fraction of the jobs lost. Almost every innovation creates fewer new jobs than whateve was before.

flexdevio
1
6 days ago

If I were you, Id learn more about the software development lifecycle, big data, and how AI is being implemented. Saying “every innovation creates fewer new jobs” is far from correct. For us to get to the point where robots are creating other robots will take a lot of new jobs to complete.

Consciousness is shifting and the old ways of doing things won’t work in this new environment. Humans have to adapt, be creative, and grow.

ravend13
1
6 days ago

Not for long because robots

FieryAvian
3
6 days ago

I'm very fearful of the Age of Automation.

saintmax
72
6 days ago

Since nobody has given a serious answer I will try (keep in mind this is a conceptual idea). A breakaway civilization primarily refers to the idea that a group of extremely wealthy or privileged people can create a secret society (either hidden within, or completely separate from our own) where they have a private infrastructure which includes housing, technology, communications, food production (some or all of these things and more). This might sound just like a rich gated community with private farms and chefs, but the conspiracy aspect of it comes with the idea that a breakaway civ would have access to technology and resources that the rest of society does not. For example, a line of communication with an extra terrestrial intelligence would provide such a leg up. Other examples would be synthetic food, advanced flying craft, or in this case, a universal surveillance system which can be used to find any person or resource, blackmail any person, etc. it has potential to go a lot deeper but this is the general idea.

steroid_pc_principal
8
6 days ago

Ah I see. I had always thought that could be possible but you would still need poorer people to do your work for you (cleaning, collecting garbage, etc). Unless the breakaway is more abstract, where none of this is secret, but it’s simply unattainable for everyone but the mega rich. Think gattaca.

Definitely possible in the future though. People will soon be able to enhance themselves and their children genetically. Being “high born” will literally become a reality when the ultra rich, for example, decide it is fashionable to be 9 feet tall.

Dr_Mantis-Shrimp_PhD
2
6 days ago

Soon Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World will have to be moved to the nonfiction section...

RumFiend
2
6 days ago

Yeah and we stupidly let them do it by sending all our DNA to ancestry.com and 23 and me etc for fucking free and when CRISPR gets the green light its goodnight eileen, we wont have the chance at a normal life like we do now or the CHANCE however small to get rich

steroid_pc_principal
3
6 days ago

Lol the people who PAID to give their DNA to those sites. What a scam. And now the FBI is scanning that database too.

mllestrong
2
6 days ago

People are already editing their children. Choosing gender, removing Marfan and other syndromes or diseases. This is happening before birth, and now the CRISPR is tidying up things after birth. I mean, for the rich, of course.

___totes_adorbs_x_
-1
6 days ago

You would. Otherwise your money would be worthless. Resources are finite. You can’t genetically alter yourself or your kids without nurses, administrators, janitors. You can’t automate without people putting stuff together.

They really need a rebellion. Stupid shits.

Brandle34
5
6 days ago

The movie Elysium is a great peek into our future.

rosscmpbll
22
6 days ago

There is no planet B!

Open your eyes and seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

*guitar riff*

FrankieNukNuk
12
6 days ago

MARS FOR THE PRIVILEGED! EARTH FOR THE POOR!

BoneVoyager
7
6 days ago

r/KGATLW is leaking

Urc0mp
3
6 days ago

Fifteen infantry paratroop into the propylene new scene.

reassor
1
6 days ago

How would you know poor worker.

VitriolicViolet
4
6 days ago

haha

oh i hope those assholes DO try and setup a some rich utopia on Mars. all these people know is screwing others to get richer, the second they settle on Mars they instantly divide themselves into new rich and new poor and start screwing each other again.

cant spend 50 years fucking people for money and power and then just stop.

steroid_pc_principal
0
6 days ago

They would just cement themselves in a permanent upper class. Get other people to do their labor, who have no chance of ever being in the upper class.

Jukecrim7
2
6 days ago

Think of it like the premise of Elysium the movie where the rich lives in a fancy space station.

RealSquatch27
1
6 days ago

It’s sort of a deep state idea, like there is a small group of people who pull the strings of what happens in the U.S. government and around the world.

PeteCorn
0
6 days ago

Underground fortresses.

bertiebees
0
6 days ago

Gated communities.

sokkates
10
6 days ago

We have constructed a world that operates on money and become surprised when its power surpasses that of religion. Money is the tangible God and it preaches only greed and power.

JustCheckinK
3
6 days ago

I swear I just listened to the JRE podcast with Alex Jones talking about this stuff and I thought it sounded crazy but now I keep seeing people talk about it everywhere.

[deleted]
1
6 days ago

breakaway civilization

The guillotine stands ready

A constant reminder to the forgetful

That we are not here for games

moviesongquoteguy
1
6 days ago

Wouldn’t that be amazing though? If we all had a breakaway civilization that either didn’t recognize their currency or it was now worth way less.

phubbed
6
6 days ago

The fucked up part...If you were to even remotely consider your "duty" to stand against a corrupt government through any kind of resistance, peaceful or not, you are instantly a terrorist or a threat to national security.

The future is here, technology is too advanced. Freedom comes at the cost of no more privacy and no more secrets.

It can go two different ways: pick up any history book and draw your own conclusion...corruption? or advancement of society?

I hope for the latter

junkfromjamesy
3
6 days ago

Thomas Jefferson was a Vanguardist. Wild.

K4R1MM
3
6 days ago

Holy shit if this is the kind of stuff smart people who founded countries wrote down I can't wait to see what kind of crayon scribble the Wexit folks are coming up with.

redditwonltemailme
1
6 days ago

Wexit? Welsh exit? Edit: nope, Alberta wants to separate from Canada. Weird name

Taefey7o
3
6 days ago

1%? Die it's less than that. More like 0.001 percent.

IHaveSoulDoubt
0
6 days ago

Fake news. Everybody knows the declaration of Independence was created by Russian Communists who wanted to divide the country and make the middle class poorer.

  • the 1%
Comeandseemeforonce
1
6 days ago

And yet we give up our guns Willy nilly

CaptainSwirly
1
6 days ago

People don't talk that way anymore.

Horny4theEnvironment
1
6 days ago

What does that mean in layman's terms?

SinisterSunny
1
6 days ago

Lol. The 1% hate each other as much as we hate them. The idea that they are all working together is obserd. This whole planet is fucked up because the 1% cant agree on anything just like the rest of the 99% cant agree on anything.

And orwell was also extremely pessimistic and couldn't understand the idea of having two enemies at the same time and having to balance priorities between them.

BudaHodl
1
6 days ago

Kudos!!! Good stuff!!!

Sabertoothsnowhobbit
0
6 days ago

Is it any wonder our schools won’t teach the concepts and understanding of government our Founding Fathers had. It is still revolutionary today and would cut the legs off the tyranny rising in the West.

DarthReeder
0
6 days ago

This is exactly why a portion of the govt wants to disarm the people.

It's our basic human right to rise up and kick out bad leadership, and it's getting pretty close to a point where the people have had enough and storm DC and kill everyone in office.

StarChild413
1
6 days ago

If you're implicitly citing what I think you are; does that passage from that document require those who rise up to institute a completely new governmental system or just "regime change" because if it's the former, what can we try that hasn't failed in the past?

DarthReeder
1
6 days ago

I'd say we keep the system, but pick true community leaders as our representative body. Not lawyers like we have been. Lawyers can advise our leadership, but leadership should not be lawyers

StarChild413
1
6 days ago

true community leaders

Definition please

DarthReeder
1
6 days ago

Members of the community who have actually dedicated their time to help said community. Leaders of outreach programs and whatnot

Aura_Blue5
0
6 days ago

I have a really hard time understanding how the "founding fathers" "knew what the 1% is doing" when they set up the right to vote behind being wealthy.

MindCervid
-1
6 days ago

"We find these truths self evident: that all men are created equal...."

— A bunch of people who owned slaves and wanted to make a country to avoid paying taxes.

The founding fathers were not good people.

En-TitY_
253
6 days ago

Wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to China, only secret and hidden.

kevinlch
90
6 days ago

China abuses human rights they said. US nation of freedom they said. Now what?

VelociJupiter
84
6 days ago

Well the US government has to hide their abuses. China doesn't even care to hide it. That's the difference now apparently.

steroid_pc_principal
36
6 days ago

I wouldn’t say they’re the same except the US is secretive. The US doesn’t have millions of people in concentration camps because of their religion. You can criticize the government without fearing for your life.

Kaptep525
10
6 days ago

But they do have a number in camps because of their ethnicity

steroid_pc_principal
26
6 days ago

None of the people in the US look like this.

It’s not because of their ethnicity it is because of their legal status. They broke the law. The US doesn’t put citizens into camps. And people of any ethnicity would be put there if they came here illegally. I don’t want to belittle how horrific the holding pens are because they’re absolutely terrible (at one point no clean toilets, no toothbrushes, no soap. Wtf) but you’re comparison is just not valid.

And just to make it more clear, when people found out about it, when congresspeople traveled there and pictures came out, there was a huge public outcry. Things changed. I really wish that would happen in China, but it doesn’t seem to be possible right now.

minigunman123
30
6 days ago

Bad things happen in the USA. Shocker.

The difference is that the USA frequently works to improve bad things, and the bad things aren't (usually) the result of a centralized and total conspiracy to do bad things (unless the conspiracy is literally "the population voted for it knowingly" like when we had homosexual marriage illegalized - that was, sadly, an example of democracy in action, not democracy failing), but the result of a branch of the government freaking out or some oversight that we then correct.

China, meanwhile, is centralized and knows exactly what it's doing and doesn't hide it and doesn't care about outcry (if any).

It's not comparable. I'm tired of the false equivalency bullshit that tries to normalize China and demonize the USA for no good reason.

steroid_pc_principal
16
6 days ago

I think that hits it on the head. A lot of the bad things in the US come down to dysfunction. The system is overworked or falling apart or has bad actors (sometimes those actors are powerful though). With China, it’s never dysfunction. They know what they’re doing, they just don’t want us to know.

VitriolicViolet
6
6 days ago

the issue is that this very comparison (what they do to their own people) is itself false equivalency.

If we are comparing them then we must include both nations foreign policies and overseas interventions.

When done like this its plain to see that China focuses its atrocities inwards and America projects them onto other nations.

China tortures million of its own people, censors everything and the people have little freedom, they also invaded Tibet and according to their own government will eventually invade Mongolia (the last part of the 'greater china' BS).
America has displaced millions with decades of war in the middle east (all for no reason, losing 3000 people in a one off attack does not justify killing hundreds of thousands and reducing several nations to rubble) regime changed over 50 nations (harming further millions) and utterly fucked south america last century.

US foreign policy is as evil as Chinese domestic policy.

minigunman123
2
6 days ago

The entire point is that the comparisons are nonsense, you can't just quantitatively compare two nations, there's no rational, coherent basis for that. Even if you could however, why would you want to justify one nation doing horrible things, by saying "but your nation also does horrible things?" That's a logical fallacy taught in freshman logic courses, tu quoque.

However, I'll still take up the argument that the USA is, and has been for the past 20 years, more morally laudable than China, because I do actually believe this to be the case. I'm writing out a lengthy essay here because honestly, I like to, and I have nothing better to do right now.

Simply looking at the body count (which, if you want to say "hundreds of thousands," doesn't actually mean "people we shot/bombed" - it includes things like deaths by crime and more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#Iraqi_civilian_casualties, so that's an important distinction to make) doesn't necessarily tell you about what happened or why, and thus doesn't tell you if it was justified - or how justified the reasoning and actions were, if at all.

The Iraq war was arguably justified not in the least because it overthrew a tyrant who was actually directly responsible for the deaths of many more than the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein%27s_Iraq) along with his terrorism and brutality which the USA couldn't match even if attempted, aside from the fact that it was widely believed (regardless of whether or not true, though much of it was true) that they were harboring and supported terrorists and terrorist groups abroad, and aside from the accusation of possessing WMD's, which was mostly nonsense. However,it's never been clear that everybody knew that it was nonsense.

All this to say: the Iraq war was awful and was mismanaged, and partially started on false premises. But let's not compare it - and the justifications we thought we had (I say "we" because the majority of the American public supported military action at the time, it wasn't an authoritarian decision by any stretch, the same cannot be safely said of ANY decision in China due to their structure), to what China has done.

The issue with South America is a good one to point out historically, but is irrelevant to this discussion. At that point, we could start picking out any stretch of time where any Chinese government historically has done horrible things, even if we add the requirement that it be something (or some things) that have effects still felt in the modern world. This can be done with every nation on Earth. That is an exercise in futility. No nation or people that has been around for a reasonable length of time can be said to never have been awful for some stretch of time or in specific events. I'm more than happy to say that the United States fucked up South and Central America horribly in the past 150 years, it's absolutely true and it's depressing to read about. We also had slavery of African Americans (at the time of course they weren't even called "African American") 156 years ago. I could just point out Mao's incredible tens-of-millions death count in the span of less than half a decade during the Great Leap Forward, and trump (no pun intended) the entire issue with South America and Slavery (for the USA's part in it) combined, if we want to just pick atrocities out of a hat and compare numbers. This isn't a useful exercise. Both nations have done unbelievably awful things before, and in these specific examples, both have changed greatly since then.

But in the modern context, in the past couple of decades, China has been going down, down, downhill and getting more totalitarian (worse than authoritarian - they want to have control over almost all aspects of life for their people), getting more oppressive, getting more jingoist with their foreign policy (South China Sea for instance) (the USA has stayed pretty stable in their grand strategy for foreign policy since 2001, even though that strategy isn't necessarily good in the first place), and increasing their military and technological espionage. The USA, meanwhile, has been engaging in questionable (sometimes justified, sometimes unjustified) low-intensity conflict in the meantime, has indeed been fucking up Afghanistan and Iraq (though whether or not that was better in the long run is hard to say, many Iraqis were thankful that Saddam was overthrown (it was they who executed him after all), but the subsequent occupation was a pretty big waste of time in hindsight), has done some questionable or outright unconstitutional things regarding surveillance (but still not as intense and overt as China), has produced or helped produce most of the technology China has been illegally copying or spying on to reproduce (including the best web technologies like Reddit, Google, YouTube, and Twitch), has been making socially progressive strides and social reforms (homosexual marriage, trans inclusiveness and visibility, etc.), and probably more that I can't think of right now.

From my point of view, the USA is obviously not perfect and obviously has done bad things in the past 20 years, but has also been trying to progress in almost every way, and has made many real strides in doing so. China has only continued to be an oppressive, insular, totalitarian state, that has given no indication of slowing down. Their only progress is economic and military, and a decent part of that is due to intellectual property theft and espionage. And, quite frankly, I'm more afraid of the world in which that is the superpower, than the world in which the USA is the superpower.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

VitriolicViolet
3
6 days ago

Thanks for the detailed response.

my issue is that taken in context with the rest of America adventurism around the world is obvious that once again they invented a reason, jumped on a crisis and then exploited the peoples reaction. i have been using Chinas history as the CCP, so the end of WWII onwards, hence my inclusion of South America. Mao being quite relevant due to the stupid shit he did.

it was not about stopping Saddam so much as another excuse to feed Americas military budget and also part of a now over 30 year long 'war' against most of the middle east.

Then there is the funding and training of groups like Al Qaeda, in part for the USs proxy war with the USSR back in the 80s and then again to destabilise the region. there are also indications that many members of ISIS have been part of other terrorist groups the US has trained and supplied (hence why every second terrorist has US weapons, that and the Saudis do the same shit). they could have tried to rebuild the region but instead have ended up bombing half the nations in the region. Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Yemen etc have all been hit by America or its 'allies'.

and no South America is very relevant. a lot it it happened after WWII when China was invading Tibet and killing some 20 million of its own people in bizarre attempts at improving the economy.

I can (and already did) concede that China treats its own people horrifically and has killed more people than the US. but its all within china.

America has done all the things its done to foreign nations and mostly for terrible reasons. most nations America has messed with are anti-US pre-fuckery and after the US is done they usually forcibly replace the government with a pro-US one. they even come back if the pro-US gets ditched and do it again. this is not for the benefit of anyone but America.

same with US 'free trade' deals they end up benefiting America but not really anyone else. the TPP for example was only going to give my country, Australia, a 1% increase in GDP over a decade. and that doesnt count what it would cost us. we were required to lengthen our medical/drug patents (driving up the cost of medication and healthcare), as well as IP for groups like Disney to irrational lengths and we had to remove tariffs on US products being sent to us but we had tariffs placed on our food exports to the US. our productivity commission reviewed it and found we would lose money, the US would benefit and we would lose out.

America is also perfectly happy supporting dictators when they want to. then we have the recent shit in Chile and Venezuela, America helped push Venezuela over the edge with its sanctions which they have been increasing since 2014 and they have all been against Venezuela's state owned oil company, the main reason they didnt immediately suffer recession. America also backed the guy who lost the election saying that is was rigged, despite Venezuela saying it was not rigged. American officials also stated that they would consider intervention to 'guard the oil'. would include what Trump said but i dont think that is worth much.

i was going to bring up Chile but thats a huge mess with the US and Russia accusing each other of being the ones causing problems.

as for theft every nation goes through this period when playing catch up to the days superpowers. America spent decades stealing IP from Europe and didnt recognise EU IP laws or patents until they caught up. its the only smart thing to do, steal everything you can to catch up. reinventing everything is marvelously stupid.

my main point being that China is bad to its own people and America is bad to everyone elses (especially nations that dont like capitalism, wont sell shit to the US for peanuts or those that try nationalise oil and banks).

I do not know if China would be worse or better than the US, if they keep doing what they have been then there will be no more 'world police' and probably more instability (one of the few good things about America is that nations dont act out too much due to fear of being 'liberated'). thats my problem, we do not know what china will do when its in charge, we do know what America does.

so i dont know.

XGPfresh
1
6 days ago

"Bad things happen in the USA. Shocker.

The difference is that the USA frequently works to improve bad things..."

What have we done to improve the current increase in mass shootings or gun violence in general? Considering your username, I can probably make an assumption what you're going to say, but I figured I'd give u the benefit of the doubt.

XGPfresh
2
6 days ago

"It’s not because of their ethnicity it is because of their legal status. They broke the law."

Immigrants who fled to the US to make a better life: tries to get a job and contribute.

US conservstives: "You broke the law! Into the cages with you!"

Rich fuck who HIRED all of those immigrants: sits in multimillion dollar home. Not charged with anything or affected in any way except having to hire ppl that now he'll have to actually pay real wages to.

What's the point of our laws when they're immoral and clearly meant to benefit the rich?

It'd also be a hell of a lot easier to believe that it's not about ethnicity, if our administration didnt start a travel ban on some Muslim nations, and if they didn't campaign on building a wall to keep the Mexicans out.

When there's more violence and crime coming from inside the US, but you're focused on dangers outside, that's like trying to kill the mosquito in your living room when there's a fire in your kitchen.

steroid_pc_principal
1
6 days ago

It's not about ethnicity though. A Chinese guy who tried to cross the southern border would be treated similarly. I'm not trying to defend the US policy at all (like I said, it's abominable) but it's a false equivalency to compare to genocidal concentration camps in Xinjiang.

salahelbat
1
6 days ago

Nah, but the USA's victims abroad in Yemen and Iraq regularly look like that.

steroid_pc_principal
2
6 days ago

Yeah I’m not a fan. I could fly to DC and protest it tomorrow with pictures and that right is protected. I don’t worry about the government disappearing me for it.

salahelbat
2
6 days ago

Hey as long as the right is there then it doesn’t count that it happens? Lol point is America is responsible for atrocities on this level just the same.

steroid_pc_principal
1
6 days ago

The same level as China. Gtfo no. Not even close.

WSBshitposter
1
6 days ago

Bruh that's not from a camp dumbass. Stop watching fox.

This dude starved himself to say fuck the CCP forgot what year it was, but ya, not from a camp.

JesusWasWayCool
1
6 days ago

So many people were deleted from my social media profiles after comparing the border and detention issues to Anne Frank's capture and eventual death in Bergen-Belsen. Disgusting that some people would try to utilize the holocaust as a lazy way of making an already misinformed argument.

JesusWasWayCool
0
6 days ago

This is a gross misrepresentation of a highly complicated social and humanitarian issue that is a major controversy amongst Americans right now. Ethnic cleansing is not the same thing as the border control and national security issues being experienced along the Mexican border (assuming thats what youre referring to).

For_Christ_The_King
0
6 days ago

What ethnicity is put in camps in the US?

SaltmineOverseer
1
6 days ago

I wouldn't say it's religion -- there are plenty of Hui and other muslim ethnic groups living fine in China. The PRC is cracking down on Uighur citizens mainly because of the Uighur separatist movements (East Turkestan) though being muslim certainly contributes to their plight.

AdHomimeme
-1
6 days ago

No just millions in prison for being black and poor.

Seriously. No country imprisons more than us.

SexyRickSandM
15
6 days ago

Ummm... try going to China and criticize the Chinese President Xi Jingping online. See what happens to you.

Youll get a very different result than if you go to America and criticize Donald Trump online.

KatalystPrime
5
6 days ago

that's because of the 1st amendment.

SinisterSunny
2
6 days ago

The first amendment is just a line in a book The reason why the government cant have retribution agaisnt what you may say is because of the systems in place that balances the power in order to stop one person from controling everything.

SinisterSunny
2
6 days ago

Well China uses theirs to lock up political dissidents. If the states were doing the same, people like Alex Jones would face a quick trial and then execution.

Plus the whole, reeducation camp thing..

And then the other many differences

Glarghl01010
1
6 days ago

Germany is the only country I've heard of that bans cameras/CCTV and facial recognition

Guess I'm learning german

kevlar51
130
6 days ago

Unfortunately case law trends on Privacy rights amount to “if the court doesn’t think you should expect privacy, then you don’t have a right to it.”

“Walked outside? Sorry, the Gov’t has all rights to track your face everywhere. Especially since there was a news story about how outraged people were about having their faces tracked. That story put you on notice to expect having your face tracked.”

socalnonsage
42
6 days ago

“Walked outside? Sorry, the Gov’t has all rights to track your face everywhere. Especially since there was a news story about how outraged people were about having their faces tracked. That story put you on notice to expect having your face tracked.”

If that's the case, in at least the US, then any laws forbidding anyone in public from covering their face should be considered a violation of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution to free speech and free association. If these laws were left to stand or more laws were enacted, this would be a defacto ban on unimpeded travel, defined in the US constitution under the subject of "Freedom of Movement." .

Knogood
114
6 days ago

For national sekkurity... tell them everything is fine.

Tevo0617
41
6 days ago

Nah, the new boogeyman is “HuMaN trAfFicKinG”. The American govt, the absolute worst human trafficking offender in history, is suddenly accusing people of human trafficking at every corner. Prostitution busts used to be just prostitution busts. Those don’t exist anymore.

The_Sitdown_Gun
23
6 days ago

you throw "absolute worst" around like it doesnt have a weight

Tevo0617
7
6 days ago

The effects of their human trafficking crimes are still prevalent. The 13th amendment still allows the government to be the grandest purveyors of slave labor.

vengeful_toaster
11
6 days ago

How is the US rhe worst trafficker? There are places where that's actually legal ya know

Orngog
-2
6 days ago

Worst in history

vengeful_toaster
4
6 days ago

What are you basing your assumption on? The slave trade? There were millions, sure, but there are more slaves today than were in america back then. The population has grown in orders of magnitude. There are an estimated 30 mil slaves in Asia alone today.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2016/08/modern-day-slavery-numbers-160816132255063.html

XGPfresh
2
6 days ago

If I wanted to learn more about the US's history with human trafficking, where would you recommend I first look? Cuz despite how critical I am about the US and our economic system, this is news to me.

Tevo0617
1
6 days ago

Washington post. No but seriously, I highly recommend reading two books to get an idea. One is called “Rise of the Warrior Cop” by Radley Balko. It shows the direct line between cops as slave catchers and their evolution into what they are today. Also there’s a book called “American Prison” about a reporter that went undercover as a corrections officer in a for-profit prison.

XGPfresh
3
6 days ago

Thanks! I got some reading to do

imnotreallyhereyo
-1
6 days ago

You can’t spell culture without ‘cult’.

PM_ME_CANADIAN_JUGS
66
6 days ago

FBI: "Sure kids, I'll tell you everything we're doing."

Also FBI: "Yeah, just give them some of our junked projects. Hide the real shit in the vault."

redbettafish
21
6 days ago

Pretty much this. I wonder what mechanism actually forces the FBI to comply, if there is one at all. They could lie to the courts and the people in general, and maybe 100 people on the inside would know the truth.

eoffif44
3
6 days ago

Nah, the play will be either to lie under oath and say nothing of the sort exists, label it under national security so that the details can't be shared, or convince the court to transfer it to a closed hearing of some sort where they can just say they don't have to answer anything because it's classified.

idindudat
53
6 days ago

Of course when google does this on a daily basis, none of you guys or the ACLU will bat a fucking eye.

ETTR
65
6 days ago

The thing is, when it turns out Google accidentally made a system that identifies all black people as a dangerous threat it will at least make the news. When the FBI does it we don't find out until 20 years later after 20 million black people got murdered by robots.

idindudat
16
6 days ago

That we *know* of. Do you honestly think all the hidden scans of your face is for benign purposes?

"Do no evil" has got to be the biggest joke of the tech industry. None of these tech companies are "the good guys". Besides, do you honestly think the FBI came up with this system themselves? I guarantee they got serious help by veterans like Google.

ETTR
10
6 days ago

Google is incredibly evil, but they never created a method for identifying hair that they knew was not accurate or founded on science, kept that knowledge secret, and used the method to convict thousands of innocent people.

JesyLurvsRats
6
6 days ago

Wait.

What?????

ETTR
10
6 days ago
Bridgebrain
3
6 days ago

Welp, thats the most horrifying thing I've read ever.

idindudat
1
6 days ago

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely think entities such as the FBI and CIA are extremely evil and corrupt. There is nothing they would love more than to imprison and subjugate us all. We are currently witnessing this historic insanity by intelligence.

inm808
1
6 days ago

This technology is going to be created no matter what. You can’t stop innovation. AI is the future and it’s coming. Someone is going to make these things

I think it’s better in their hands than anyone else who would be making it in the current tech industry. Look at who else is in the game

Unfortsuntely this is an area where startups cannot compete because it’s the data and hardware that are critical, the algorithms not so much. So that only leaves the giants

We’re not dealing in absolutes. It’s relatives

ps2cho
2
6 days ago

ROBOTS? NO ROBOTS HERE, HUMA...FRIEND.

Too_Much_Banta
-1
6 days ago

But black people are far more likely to commit crimes?

ExiledExarch
-1
6 days ago

They do commit more violent crime so I can see why machine learning would come to that conclusion

realcalidairy
45
6 days ago

My wife and I went to get our licenses here in WA state a couple weeks ago, and when they take your photos now it 3D maps your face and puts it into the system.

Fuck this shit.

romjacket
34
6 days ago

You should have requested a cartoonist on religious grounds

BaerCaer
13
6 days ago

In Arizona the ID cards had like a 50 year expiration but due to some new TSA laws they all have to get new “travel IDs”. Bet that’s exactly what this is.

realcalidairy
7
6 days ago

Yeah, my wife is actually from there. She's was really upset to let it go

mr_ji
1
6 days ago

OTOH, not retesting someone for driving for 50 years seems kinda irresponsible.

BaerCaer
2
6 days ago

I don’t even think they do retests in other states, it’s mostly just to update the picture and pay some more taxes.

Smershey
38
6 days ago

When I came back from a recent trip to Canada, the lady at the customs desk on the American side addressed me by my first and last name before I even handed her any documents.

ravepeacefully
68
6 days ago

You literally scan your ID before going through, this isn’t facial recognition lmao

gordonv
3
6 days ago

I'm amazed a government entity is working that efficiently on a customer facing operation.

Smershey
1
6 days ago

They said my name before I gave them any documents. And they had me look directly into a camera.

ravepeacefully
1
6 days ago

It’s not racial recognition. They scan your ID card.

tactical_cleavage
0
6 days ago

That's awful.

vengeful_toaster
18
6 days ago

It wasnt the FBI who struck a deal with epstein, it was trump's Acosta. They need to investigate that whole mess and why they let him off the hook to begin with

catchyerowntrain
2
6 days ago

But most importantly, Bill Clinton

vengeful_toaster
1
6 days ago

Why is he more important than trump, the prince, the senator, the cartoonist, or anyone else with ties to him?

TheCapedCrudeSaber
6
6 days ago

You would need to recover the evidence that was destroyed, first. Circumstantial evidence, while strong, would not be sufficient to win this suit. Worst case scenario for them, it all gets pinned on one or two people.

misterjaayy
25
6 days ago

Everyone’s up in arms about this technology until the next terrorist attack or mass shooting happen. Then it’s the government didn’t do enough we need more technology to stop these guys.

TCrob1
11
6 days ago

The problem is how the intrusive tech is being used.

Mass surveillance is casting a net on everyone hoping nothing falls through, but the exact opposite happens. The people that need to get looked at with this tech fall through and shoot a bunch of people in public.

It's almost a joke that the NSA and FBI has absurd resources at their disposal meanwhile it's apparently very easy to plan and commit an act of mass violence with nobody being alerted too much, be it with a truck or with a gun.

Benukysz
2
6 days ago

I personally think that the system fucked up because it didn't adapt to the changes in culture. Stopping bombing crimes, in my opinion, is just trying to eliminate negative effects of the root problem instead of the root problem itself.

Modern problems require modern solutions. Government should hire a big IT team with data analyst that would gather all the data and build analytical models that would clearly show why bombings, shootings happen what should be done.

Like, maybe they would find that shooters/bombers usually have mental problems and live in the poorer city areas, or in city areas that have bigger racist crime rate or something. Judging by that, they could implement more checks on people with these problems, in these locations. Easier to access mental health programs or something.

Maybe that already exists, I don't know. Not from USA. Just an opinion.

TCrob1
2
6 days ago

It's hard for me to say who should do what because chances are theres tons of insane classified programs and tech and surveillance methods that I dont know about.

The thing about the USA is that we seem to have more frequent incidents of mass violence committed by one single person with no group affiliation than other countries. Given that we have way more advanced surveillance technology than most of the world, I just dont get how these things can be happening so commonly. The only think I can say for sure is that the net cast is too wide. The NSA simply looks at too many people. Everyone in America with any level of an online presence has a file on them, and I'm not kidding or exaggerating when I say that. Even foreigners who come into the country.

Not sure if you know this, but right after 9/11, George W Bush signed the Patriot act into law It flew through the house of representatives and the senate with near unanimous support. One of the major implications the patriot act had (it covered a lot of different issues) was giving the federal government unprecended power and reach in terms of surveillance. It really opened the floodgates to the issues we are experiencing now.

VitriolicViolet
1
6 days ago

you realise that none of these laws are about stopping terrorists or shooters or improving safety?

Its all justification to remove rights and watch the entire population. the West wants Chinas social credit score but cannot implement it to quickly or else the people will revolt. so instead they do it slowly, give it 30 years and we will have it (though it will be westernised, slightly less controlling and far more ads).

'never let a good crisis go to waste'

VizziniTheVainful
1
6 days ago

Yes everyone with a digital footprint is documented, but do you really think NSA agents are digging through the files for suspicious activity? They're not. It's just too much information for human labor. It's an AI.

ThaMidnightOwL
3
6 days ago

Except intrusive surveillance like this has been proven not to have helped stopped one single attack. The argument for this technology being used for your safety doesnt make sense in any regard.

misterjaayy
1
6 days ago

Well it would help identify the people who did it, get them in custody faster, and prevent further violence. How does it not make any sense?

ThaMidnightOwL
1
6 days ago

Because that only helps after the crime has already been comitted. There is no prevention or 'safety' that comes with this technology. Even if there is some kind of utility as you mentioned (faster apprenhension) we need to think of the cost we are facing to achieve that. Are you ok with for example, having no sense of privacy whatsoever with the government knowing every detail about your life in its entireity in exchange for the possibility of catching a criminal after a crime has already been commited? what about the possibility of misuse and abuse these systems may bring against the people its supposedly designed to protect? These are the questions we need to think about.

MildlyBemused
1
6 days ago

Are you mental? If people know they're likely to be identified if they commit a crime, don't you think that is "prevention" or "safety"? If criminals are identified and apprehended before they can commit any future crimes, don't you think that is "prevention" or "safety"? Facial recognition hardware isn't being installed in your bedroom, it's out in the public. You don't have any expectation of privacy while you're out in public anyhow. Hell, you're posting on Reddit! You don't think the government can already trace everything you type here back to you? smh

ThaMidnightOwL
1
6 days ago

Not mental. I don't call that prevention or safety. That's called totalitarianism. Please read up on these programs. They don't stop anything until after the crimes are comitted. Expecting the government to make you safe when they are often the biggest abusers of power is mental. You trust the government (which already has made these unconstituional programs in complete secracy) to do the right thing when this very program's inception is dubious to begin with? That is mental my friend.

MildlyBemused
0
6 days ago

CELL PHONES have facial recognition now! Most businesses have multiple cameras, ATMs have cameras, there are cameras at street corners for traffic lights, people have cameras in their cars... And you're worried about facial recognition software? What do you think the government is going to do if they recognize your face? If you're not wanted for anything, the answer is NOTHING! The government doesn't give a rats ass about people not causing trouble. It's not like they have the personnel or the budget to watch every single boring citizen mowing their lawn or driving home from work. However, if you're wanted for doing something illegal, if suddenly you're being seen repeatedly in the presence of a known terrorist, if you're caught in the act of committing a crime... Well, then you should be brought in and the rest of us are now that much safer.

If you're THAT concerned about Big Brother spying on you while you're outside getting your mail, then maybe you should pack your bags and go live in a cave in the woods. Otherwise, take a chill pill, get on with your life and stay out of trouble.

ThaMidnightOwL
1
6 days ago

Ah yes. The classic, "if you're doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about" argument. What the government defines as being 'normal' or what their opinion on what someone 'staying out of trouble' means is highly subjective. Guess who the government considered to be a huge target for surveillance and espionage back in the civil rights days? Martin Luther King. Now we have a holiday in his honor. Point is these systems serve to maintain the balance of power and the status quo. You can't say this is a free democracy when at the same time the government uses these surveillance tools to keep an eye on and actively works on repressing dissenters and political opponents.

MildlyBemused
1
6 days ago

Ah yes. The classic, "the government is out to get you" argument. You can attribute just about any event to "the government" if you twist it hard enough. "The government" is made up of people. Just ordinary, everyday people. And these people, for the most part, are simply trying to make America and the rest of the world a better place to live. And they have no choice but to use every tool at their disposal to assist them. Because criminals certainly won't hesitate to use those tools first. And I would much rather see the government having the technological edge than the criminals.

ThaMidnightOwL
1
6 days ago

If you think the 1% that are at the top of the government have the same interests, concerns and problems as the rest of us 'everday people', you are grossly misguided and naive.

dryerlintcompelsyou
2
6 days ago

Yep, this. Everyone hates intrusive technology + policing right up until (A) a terrorist attack happens, (B) a mass shooting occurs, or (C) a pedophile is discovered. You see it on Reddit all the time, it's kinda sickening.

noussr
1
6 days ago

IDK about point C though. We found out about Epstein and all his friends, yet there is no outrage and nothing has changed.

dryerlintcompelsyou
1
6 days ago

True. I guess it's not super applicable in this scenario (surveillance in policing). More so I was talking about how everyone suddenly starts advocating for mob justice, police brutality, and prison rape when there's a pedophile involved.

misterjaayy
1
6 days ago

No outrage? Have you been on Reddit and social media? What change are you looking for?

VitriolicViolet
1
6 days ago

what? theres massive outrage. its one of the only times ive seen right and left agree on something.

EnginerdCantSpell
1
6 days ago

I don't think it's the governments job to stop extremism. Extremism has been around since the dawn of time, and no amount of government dictatorship control is going to get rid of it.

misterjaayy
1
6 days ago

And who is supposed to monitor and deter extremists from acting on their beliefs?

EnginerdCantSpell
5
6 days ago

We could try giving people the basic necessities to live. That's typically what breeds extremism. If people have what they need, they don't generally resort to bombs and guns.

misterjaayy
0
6 days ago

Oh yeah? That’s your plan for Islamic extremists?

Alt left and alt right will always harbor their views on race and racism. Give them a house and a free phone and guess what? They are still hateful. Let’s not be naive...

EnginerdCantSpell
2
6 days ago

That's a new one. I've never heard of the alt left.

misterjaayy
0
6 days ago

Yep it’s a thing. I mean it’s fair to reason if there is an element of society that is alt right, there has to be an alt left. You would just never know it because it doesn’t fit Reddit’s script and agenda.

Any thoughts on my actual reply?

EnginerdCantSpell
1
6 days ago

You're not wrong. People tend to resort to violence when they are desperate. If that wasn't the case, extremism would be very isolated cases.

misterjaayy
0
6 days ago

Dictatorship? You don’t know what that word means or you used it in the wrong context. Surveillance does not equate to dictatorship.

Threeknucklesdeeper
22
6 days ago

I'm sure it's all on the up and up and definitely nothing we need to be concerned about being abused...

peterparking1
23
6 days ago

What's with the weird title. It's repeating everything for no reason.

larrythefatcat
20
6 days ago

It's a bad title. It's long. It's bad because it's long and repetitive.

peterparking1
2
6 days ago

True words.

MildlyBemused
2
6 days ago

What's with the weird title. It's repeating everything for no reason.

mr_ji
1
6 days ago

They don't want it confused with exactly the same story that made it to the front page twice yesterday.

Bodchubbz
21
6 days ago

Really funny how people think this facial recognition software is ‘new tech’

Our military has been using it for almost 2 decades

shimonimi
10
6 days ago

Not anywhere near the level of modern tech, though.

authoritrey
1
6 days ago

I've been dropping the sun-shade to get traffic lights to change since Bush the Dumber. You've all seen it and lived through it. Collectively we've lost billions of work hours to improperly working facial recognition systems that hold lights red in order to identify you.

quasarito
5
6 days ago

never heard of this before, do you have any sources?

authoritrey
-1
6 days ago

Sure, just let me just commit a number of felonies to uncover a top-secret domestic spying operation and then rest under the protection of whistleblower statutes.

Or, you can empirically time and test the phenomenon yourself.

Or, you can choose to not believe me without testing and observation, or decide that you can't figure it out and not know what to believe. That's what The Man wants you to do.

BaerCaer
5
6 days ago

Okay you got me, I’ll try it.

EnginerdCantSpell
2
6 days ago

And where exactly is the facial recognition system that's doing this?

mr_ji
1
6 days ago

I knew all those shaggy guys in orange vests working on the traffic lights who can barely speak English were agents of the State!

Wowstemp
12
6 days ago

ITT: It is confirmed that the people in this subreddit know absolutely nothing about technology.

mooseleer
5
6 days ago

Are you surprised that r/futurology turned out to be the Jack Ma of subreddits?

ThreeLeggedTranny
3
6 days ago

If you ever want to really see how retarded the average Redditor is, go find a thread about something you are an expert in and dive into the comments.

mllestrong
2
6 days ago

It's fun to find a smart comment and dive, though.

Ignyted
2
6 days ago

When is there time to actually learn about tech between my full-time job and my part-time fearmongering?

Wowstemp
1
6 days ago

It's not fearmongering! The government has an unlimited budget and they dedicate billions of dollars to track and control the priceless data concerning everyday citizens that are both broke and irrelevant to politics! /s

People fight this stuff, then the moment there's a terrorist attack or some guy goes on a killing spree they criticize the government for not stopping it beforehand.

Lazymanproductions
11
6 days ago

Vox “the government is doing something fishy! Don’t trust the government!”

Also Vox “the government said it. Are you going to go against the government??”

GoneInSixtyFrames
6
6 days ago

They are doing what they always show in the movies, scan millions of photos. Lots of dots show up on screen and boom, it's a match.

Edited.

_DoYourOwnResearch_
3
6 days ago

Which they of course won't use to find victims of kidnapping, trafficking, etc.

eqleriq
6
6 days ago

to find out what the government is doing with facial recognition technology.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and state that the government has a massive database of face vectors/details derived from official ID photos, surveillance cameras, and whatever criminal photography.

They also have a social media and image tagging index, neatly tagged by willing popuation via captcha or whatever social tagging mechanisms.

they're using that to...

...dramatic pause...

...identify people.

And before you finish shitting your diapers, they also have license plate scanning databases, cell tower pings, satellite pings and internet traffic data from multiple layers.

There are "fusion centers" all throughout the country that serve as data aggregation between agencies, that are working to build APIs to allow all the data to be collated trivially.

I'm not exactly sure what the ACLU thinks they'll uncover...

ps2cho
5
6 days ago

Yet we continue to give the government more and more power. It’s astounding to me how stupid we’ve become because we live in a first world country believing we’re “beyond” it now.

Georgiagirl678
5
6 days ago

Can someone educate me on how to effectively support this type of activism? I wrote my congressman but would like to do more.

thefluffybessie
7
6 days ago

Donate to the ACLU.

TheNotSoGreatPumpkin
1
6 days ago

Careful with that. I did once and they aggressively called me for years afterward asking for more and accusing me of neglecting my moral obligations.

KingLemons
1
6 days ago

Vote for Andrew Yang! He wants to pass a policy to make our data a property right, as well as manny other policies to restore democracy like this one for example https://www.yang2020.com/policies/democracydollars/ and ubi would be game-changing

BotsRKind
5
6 days ago

Tying faces to phones, cars, houses and friends. Trying to ID those without phones. They are hiding from something and must be investigated.

hukep
3
6 days ago

It will do a lot great but also infinity of bad things. People in power don't hesitate to abuse any technology for their interests.

90Carat
3
6 days ago

Tin foil hat time.... When I check out at Home Depot and my local grocery store, they have cameras and monitors setup to deter shoplifting. I wonder, since I am giving them data when I also use my credit or debit card, what happens with that data? How much is Home Depot or Kroger’s making off a continuously updating database of facial recognition?

Ladybonerthrow86
7
6 days ago

I doubt their camera systems are even remotely advanced enough to map your face appropriately. Most department store CCTV systems are extremely low quality

90Carat
2
6 days ago

I don’t think those cameras need to be really high quality. Very good cameras are very cheap. I don’t think they do a full face map when I’m at Home Depot. Rather, an update. Here is how it would work. Let’s say when I travel internationally and I get back to the US, and get my face scanned in customs. That setup does a baseline scan. Eye width, cheek bones, jaw, etc. The info that Home Depot provides would be a current update.

Here is what got me thinking about this. My driver’s license was taken several years ago. Since then, I have dropped 30#’s, grown a beard, and wear thick framed glasses. Recently, I was traveling, and the TSA agent thought my driver’s license was fake. I had to take off my glasses, and have a little conversation with them. “You sure have changed a lot...”. So while my basic face measurements haven’t changed, I look really different. I can imagine that various government agencies would find that information valuable to have.

Ladybonerthrow86
5
6 days ago

I can see where you're coming from. My experience in dept store CCTV systems has taught me they generally run on closed systems, meaning they are not connected to the internet, to prevent hacking. However, that doesn't mean that the new systems aren't. It's been a few years since I fucked around with the dept store stuff.

lainelect
3
6 days ago

I doubt they’re collecting data for facial recognition but their privacy policy isn’t entirely clear about that.

evanalmighty19
2
6 days ago

I worked in security during college doing undercover shit. The cameras they have are trash. Playback is such low resolution to store so many cameras worth of data in the cheapest way possible that unless you were capturing images off of the screen as it was happening it was basically just a human figure and you could use it to determine what they were wearing.

reddideridoo
3
6 days ago

Just waiting for a statement like "For reasons of national security, we will not reveal anything. But you can trust us, we aren't doing anything illegal. Trust us and move on."

Death_To_All_People
3
6 days ago

Yeah. People don't want their faces on some kind of database with their names, addresses and DOB... and licence or passport number.

T_Rash
9
6 days ago

It will do more than that. Every time your face is scanned that info will be save too. The government will know exactly where you have been, when you have been there and how often you go there.

Your face gets scanned 1 minute after a crime was committed around the corner from the scan happening. You are now a person of interest.

ThreeLeggedTranny
4
6 days ago

They have all of that information now, if you carry a smartphone.

T_Rash
0
6 days ago

Not if you are smart about your smartphone.

ThreeLeggedTranny
0
6 days ago

Unless you are physically removing the ability for it to be tracked via GPS, it is being tracked via GPS.

box_of_pandas
3
6 days ago

And if the government gets caught doing something illegal they will simply make it legal and continue doing it.

Everyoneheresamoron
3
6 days ago

China has been rolling this out successfully for the past 5 years. I think the biggest obstacle wasn't the algorithms, but the camera clarity. Now you can have 5 cameras at the super bowl and match 10 thousand people up to names and addresses before the half-time show.

newbies13
3
6 days ago

I imagine they are doing everything you think they are doing with it, plus 5 things you can't think of, and they won't be stopping regardless of who knows.

HitlerMoonLanding
2
6 days ago

Good to see the ACLU getting back to its roots with this. Happy to see it.

singingquest
2
6 days ago

I’m guessing they’re going to argue facial recognition is a violation of privacy rights through the due process clause? Anyone know for sure?

MaybeAverage
1
6 days ago

Anyone in public view without a reasonable expectation of privacy can be legally photographed. It really isn’t illegal what they’re doing, what they’re suing for is to find out the extent of it, probably through the FOIA because many agencies are staying tight lipped as the controversy emerges.

Lucille2016
2
6 days ago

I can not believe that I'm actually supporting the ACLU on a decision.

It's sad theres still people they want bigger federal government.

classicwarcrafterp
2
6 days ago

Why are people just now worried about this stuff? Was it when you came across facial recognition software with very accurate algorithms for cheap? This stuff is old now, even small businesses can afford this stuff and a 16 camera set up for almost nothing. My old shitty iphone unlocks itself by using facial recognition. We could have tried to limit this stuff and put it off for longer if we had come at it full force with laws specifically for this 20 years ago, now its just too late.

random_interneter
8
6 days ago

Might have told us back then so we could do something about it. But you were probably too busy being right about something.. oh well! The only logical conclusion is that it's too late to do anything about it now. Let us know what to do next so we don't get it wrong, again!

classicwarcrafterp
3
6 days ago

Sorry I was busy being a kid. Bet you are fun at parties. It is too late to do anything about it now. But since its here we should probably regulate it on some levels, which isn't the case currently.

random_interneter
4
6 days ago

Regulating it is a great idea.

XGPfresh
1
6 days ago

I used to have a similar reaction. But every time something like this is posted about, its someone's first time learning about it.

VizziniTheVainful
1
6 days ago

You can't stop progress. Facial recognition is here to stay.

GhostGanja
2
6 days ago

But we should all trust our intelligence agencies! They’ve never lied to us before!/s

leandroman
2
6 days ago

Oh look, the ACLU is doing something for me once in a long time.

pyromaster114
1
6 days ago

Facial recognition technology is a terrifying thing.

The 'right to know everything' that many authorities seem to have is getting more and more ethically questionable, especially as surveillance efforts are handed off to machines that have 0 accountability and often 0 ability to even explain how they arrived at a conclusion or course of action.

It's stuff that 30 years ago would have sounded like something out of a dystopian science fiction novel. I think it should be published, because secret things rarely get the oversight they need... cause no one's watching.

VizziniTheVainful
1
6 days ago

Why are assuming that AIs that oversee data have no accountability? They don't even need the ability to act by themselves. Just provide information to humans.

n0lifeismylife
3
6 days ago

Anyone who thinks we don't live in a surveillance state is an idiot. The government has backdoors to all your personal devices all it takes is a secret warrant and all your info is theirs.

Thanks Patriot act.

8ooo00
1
6 days ago

Aren’t all warrants secret? If I sell drugs the DEA is not gonna give me a heads up before they raid me??

n0lifeismylife
3
6 days ago

There's a public legal process first at the very least and you're informed as it's happening or least after. Patriot act lets them just spy on you as they please

ThaMidnightOwL
2
6 days ago

Except intrusive surveillance like this has been proven not to have helped stopped one single attack. The argument for this technology being used for your safety doesnt make sense in any regard.

rejuicekeve
1
6 days ago

you've posted this more than once in the thread without sourcing it at all. nice try though.

VizziniTheVainful
1
6 days ago

Even assuming that's true, you don't think they're planning on using this surveillance to stop crime eventually? Technology isn't built in a day.

actionboy21
2
6 days ago

ACLU: What are you doing with that facial recognition software you got? FBI: Rule 34. That's what we're doing.

aerovado
1
6 days ago

I'm not always a fan of ALCU but God dammit I do respect you.

TheCapedCrudeSaber
0
6 days ago

I too am dyslexic.

steamsport
0
6 days ago

Why isn’t the Epstein case being held more accountable

vengeful_toaster
1
6 days ago

They can't persue a criminal investigation against him because he committed "suicide".

steamsport
3
6 days ago

And a fire was found to be lit on his private island

Did we even save the girls he was sex trafficking

vengeful_toaster
1
6 days ago

You mean the ones making the accusations against the prince, epstein, Matt groening, some senator, among others? They're are a few of them giving accounts of what happened

jonesRG
1
6 days ago

Wait Matt Groening is implicated? Noooo

vengeful_toaster
0
6 days ago

Apparently one gave him a foot massage on the lolita express

TheCapedCrudeSaber
0
6 days ago

You can't hold a case accountable. Who do you want to be held accountable?

steamsport
3
6 days ago

The fact the case could have broke 3 years ago? How many cover ups have been done by news organizations on this guy that we know nothing about.

TheCapedCrudeSaber
2
6 days ago

Exactly, there are a lot of people at fault, and nobody knows who to blame. Call out the people, calling out the case accomplishes nothing.

KaiRaiUnknown
2
6 days ago

All the child-raping monsters he was protecting, for starters

TheCapedCrudeSaber
1
6 days ago

Who? I'm 100% with you, but who can we blame? Let's focus on the real people at fault, not general groups of unnamed individuals.

KaiRaiUnknown
1
6 days ago

The whole reason they're unnamed individuals is because he was protecting them. We know roughly who is at fault, but no actual names because of the nature of the case

TheCapedCrudeSaber
0
6 days ago

Blaming an unnamed group of people accomplishes the same thing as blaming no one. As much as it might make you feel better, it does nothing to punish those responsible.
I think the first priority should be on the prison managment. Who was in charge, how did this happen. Somebody either has dirt, or got paid a whole lot.

KaiRaiUnknown
0
6 days ago

But thats the point, we all want them named. Saying "you can't blame a nameless mob" accomplishes nothing. That would be like no murder being solved because there wasn't a suspect handing themselves in like "hey, murdered that person". They can be identified, and thats what people want

TheCapedCrudeSaber
1
6 days ago

You are misunderstanding me, I don't think we should give up on the offenders. I just think we need to start at the beginning, to identify them.

Gr3yt1mb3rw0LF068
1
6 days ago

Why do you think the federal government passed a law of real ID.

cornysheep
1
6 days ago

Just a wild guess, but I’d guess that they’re recognizing faces.

cornysheep
1
6 days ago

Cant wait for the new fashion trend - bee keeper masks. Gonna be doooope!

wheeldog
5
6 days ago
XXX-XXX-XXX
1
6 days ago

Probably the same thing as china, Russia, and the uk.

Playonwords329
1
6 days ago

Haven't they seen enemy of the state. That's what they're doing

sauerkrautsoda
1
6 days ago

ACLU is full of shit, just more fear mongering as always.

blacksheep281328
1
6 days ago

it's time to cut our government back until it fits within the confines of the constitution.

Zandragon
1
6 days ago

Wow, that’s cool technology, it can be really useful for tracking criminal shit. Don’t understand why are people mad of it, when World Web has already all information about us, and camera is part of each phone! Why do you hate good technology’s who can be used to catch criminals and prevent lots of terrifying shit, just because bunch of communistic asian idiots use it to terrorize their own people? Stalin used calls interception system (he could literally hear what all other soviet politicians were talking about) to uncover secrets and then use them as weapon to destroy lots of people, and set his own tyranny over the USSR, so now we shall stop FBI from using this technology for preventing crimes, just cause they can hear how you are congratulate your mom???

ThaMidnightOwL
1
6 days ago

Except intrusive surveillance like this has been proven not to have helped stopped one single attack. The argument for this technology being used for your safety doesnt make sense in any regard.

VizziniTheVainful
1
6 days ago

Even assuming that's true, the aim of this technology is to help stop crime. The progress to achieve that goal is being made.

Akakazeh
1
6 days ago

I hope people realize that the government can find where you are all the time by tracking the devices you keep on you at all times. They can use that to find out the moment you walk into the store and whatever. Facial recognition is not that big of a step past that, in some ways it needs that data as well. Don't stop the technology because it will always come, make sure the laws and regulations are good. As long as the government doesn't use this technology to analyze faces as high risk criminals we are good, and honestly, that only because people are aware that the algorithms are shit. If they improve I still wouldn't be that concerned. Stopping you government from having certain powers is never as effective as actually fixing the government, Wich is what more people should strive to do

hitlerosexual
1
6 days ago

Is it not obvious what the government is using it for?

Northstars97
1
6 days ago

Lol and then we turn around and cheer on the FBI for trying to impeach the president. Nuts

StarChild413
1
6 days ago

Groups like that aren't monoliths

randomnobody3
1
6 days ago

The real problem is most Americans don't care at all about being watched by the government or their privacy being violated

shillyshally
1
6 days ago

Join the ACLU, join the EFF, join something fighting against this enchroaments on our privacy. It's not all that much $$ and they could use the support.

jimbobhoss
1
6 days ago

the government isn’t a government anymore, its a bunch of rich buddies fucking over the planet

Kabalaka
1
6 days ago

Fuck these orwellian, spying, lying, law breaking, constitution violating, greedy, corrupt, hippocrates. They can pour over my browsing history, but I can't know what laws my tax dollars are being used to break? It's all backwards. Anyone who says, "hey what's the big deal? I got nothing to hide!" Hasn't been paying attention to what life is like in China. Do you want to work a hard, honest living just to have your country turn into China? Me neither.

Hardcore90skid
1
6 days ago

I actually don't care as much about what they are doing with the data so much as where are they obtaining it. Do they have their own network and own hardware setup? Are they buying it from third parties and if so, whom?

Skppy1080
1
6 days ago

Don’t know why, but I read this like it was a news bulletin from Nightvale.

ronnie_s
1
6 days ago

The ACLU is suing the FBI to find out what the government is doing with facial recognition technology.

I guarantee it's for security reasons

hickory-dickory
1
6 days ago

I'd be more concerned about the advertisement companies using the same tech...

jeremyian23
1
6 days ago

See idc about the government spying on me because I have nothing to hide. Watch me jerk off idc. But like... pay me some money to do it maybe? :)

brander20
1
6 days ago

Well, I would guess it's using eye tracking data to verify beliefs of "marks" to make macro and micro profiles of target populations. I'd also guess that its gone from political outsourcing of statistical data about legitimacy markers for many levels of government worldwide to using the tools for in the field "work".

GODDAMNIT_REDDIT
1
6 days ago

The United States National Reconnaissance Office can see your face from Space, but can they tell us why children love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Your cereal box prize says:

[Jeffery Epstein didn't kill himself]

Insipid_Pedantry
1
6 days ago

They're getting ready to make sure we don't get a second Constitutional Convention.

Arcology_Designs
1
6 days ago

Is the ACLU suing? Title is unclear, just want to make sure.

darkey320
1
6 days ago

Feel like this is something we should vote on ya know?

Idolikeleftovers
1
6 days ago

I’m not surprise this technology is being used by the government. I would have been surprised if they didn’t the technology ready to use.

tasartir
1
6 days ago

Does anyone says Citizen commission to investigate the FBI?

EdwardSandchest
1
6 days ago

What we need is a whistleblower. Where is Chelsea Manning during all this?

EvebeaV
1
6 days ago

And for some reason people want government to be bigger and to have more of a role into every part of our lives. It amazes me how people think big government is benign, more government is better, and the people in government care. Lots of stupid people out there. Am I right?

peacepipe1
1
6 days ago

Idiots. They are keeping a database of peoples faces so they can identify them in pictures and videos. Just like the paparazzi it is legal to capture peoples pictures in public and do with them what yuh wish. Idiots.... Suing. Morons demanding the truth instead of thinking

GoggleGeek1
1
6 days ago

I don't understand why it's so hard to stop. Everyone who is working on it should be doing there hardest to either sabotage it or whistle blow. Or do they actually think it is a good idea for the government to run these types of systems?

Dynafesto
1
6 days ago

I have heard Vegas has and RIC is getting facial recognition devices for air travel validation purposes.

bradthebam
1
6 days ago

This is your brain This is drugZ This is your brain on drugZ

BoiledOwl
1
6 days ago

So at the end of the cruise we got off the ship (Celebrity/Royal Caribbean Oct 2019) collected our luggage and were then guided through what appeared to be security but was actually a facial recognition photo set-up. No ID requested, no match-up with ship-card...just the photo.

THR33ZAZ3S
1
6 days ago

Ill tell you what its NOT using it for: the good of Americans everywhere.

Bart-o-Man
1
6 days ago

No gov or non-gov entity has unlimited resources to store, process, and/or analyze everything. As much as Im not thrilled about it and as much as everyone would love to know all the answers, the darkest Orwellian big brother theories probably aren't the real answer. As much as everyone wants to feel their info is important, no entity wants in on every detail on everyone's life. For most people, the most valuable info that can be extracted from you from legit companies is info used to estimate how you spend your money and how much you have to spend.

If you had a finite/limited budget to use cameras and AI to get valuable info from a population, would you use it to reconstruct daily timelines of everyone's habits, or to sift through and find movements of high value criminals? Yes, some may surely abuse it, but it's not feasible to spend your whole accountable budget that way. A dictator regime can do it, but congressional budget oversight, and accountability to elected representatives make it very hard to pull off a dark conspiracy in a democracy. You're always one whistleblower away from wrecking the conspiracy. As vicious as political attack dogs can be, one political party always trying to damage the other party builds in resistance to long-lived conspiracies.

Pretexts
1
6 days ago

Guys, while I can understand concerns about what facial recognition is being used for is their any evidence it is being used for anything dubious? I then look at the comments and I find posters seem to be an assortment of conspiracy theorists. I guess proof is not needed?

Right, I have a spaceship to catch going to Mars and leave you low income plebs behind....seriously? :D

Bowdyboy
0
6 days ago

It really just seems like a better system then putting a bunch of printed out images on the wall if it stops one known terrorist I’m cool with it. I trust that system to identify known threats better than the guy who felt me up at the airport.

tarzan322
0
6 days ago

Really, if you can't figure out what the government is doing with facial recognition tech, then you have been living under a rock. They are identifying criminals with it, and could possibly simply lock down parts of the country for the rich elite to live in, while the poor are stuck penniless behind an expensive toll system. This sounds quite a bit like the movie In Time, which I wouldn't doubt for one moment could possibly come true one day.

minkju
0
6 days ago

Unfortunately it’s probably gonna take another Snowden to find out the truth

Rhawk187
0
6 days ago

Won't they run into the same issues as they did with the FISA court? You can't sue unless you have standing. You don't have standing unless you were affected. You can't know you were affected if they keep what they are doing secret.

Mego2019
0
6 days ago

They print the face on piece of paper and then they draw mutache and monacles bc we live in society and u have to deal with it

IMStrong59
0
6 days ago

The ACLU would have us all dead. The government would have us all under control. Where is the happy medium?

StarChild413
2
6 days ago

ACLU people (or at least those who'd otherwise take their side) turning to vigilante justice against the control-happy parts of the government

solosamurai13
0
6 days ago

only a matter of time before they’re all suicided to death

Nanteen666
0
6 days ago

They are just waiting for the proper hero moment to publicly admitt to the program.

Finding a terrorist, or saving a kidnapped kid.

VaderNova
-1
6 days ago

You dont sue somebody to "find out what they're doing" you sue somebody, when your sure that, that somebody is doing something wrong.

TheCapedCrudeSaber
4
6 days ago

You can sue anybody for anything, then the courts will decide if you have a legitimate suit or not.

kgtg20
1
6 days ago

Lol that’s a nice sentiment.

MoreDotsOkStopDots
-1
6 days ago

Cool, can we keep posting the same shit everyday, I never get tired of seeing it /s

AccomplishedExtent2
-1
6 days ago

Your ego isn’t aware I needed this thank you OP. Almost every man in a Nicki Minaj song “slangs cocaine” or “flip backwards” due to the metal on the trailer. These guys decided to jump on to anything he just went to get a passer rating as close to objects as possible. It would have taken way too much into trying to kill it..