Tzetvik
3666
2 months ago

Oil and automotive lobbies also kill public transit proposals, despite the facts that definitively show that public transit is vastly more efficient, safer, and cost effective. The same people now oppose wind energy on bogus claims.

Alberius
1163
2 months ago

Well, they're not JUST actively opposing it... they're actually helping to write the laws and then passing out copy-paste laws to anyone that's on their payroll

soulsteela
418
2 months ago

Trump is violently pissed off after losing his court battle in the U.K. this is his idea of revenge. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-47400641

Khotaman
282
2 months ago

Cant believe hes trying to fack his own people. Its a disgrace that the leader of our country has his priorities in money instead of those he is supposed to be leading.

Edit: you guys are right. It was silly to ever believe this guy even had a chance of redeeming himself after being voted in to office. Its completely illogical that we let someone like him run for office in the first place. I thought the president was supposed to work for us, the people. It seems as though treating fellow humans as such doesnt matter, so long is one can 'one-up' another. Power hungry politicians are crippling the well being of the so called 'lesser classes'. I guess fellow humans mean nothing to them.

Quacks_dashing
172
2 months ago

Its Trump, hes never given a fuck about people.

robmillerforward
113
2 months ago

Nope. His sole concern is seeking more and more personal praise. Nothing else even registers on his radar.

TexasKornDawg
52
2 months ago

I am continually shocked and horrified that anyone thought he would be even a semi competent or decent president..

court12b
32
2 months ago

I was literally in a daze for the entirety of November 8, 2016.

HothHalifax
19
2 months ago

Me too. Cost me a few friendships. I couldn’t let it go.

helldeskmonkey
12
2 months ago

I burned all those friendships during Bush 2's admin. Didn't make dealing with the aftermath any easier.

followupquestion
2
2 months ago

I literally bought my first gun the next day. I don’t know what the future holds, but I know I don’t want to be defenseless for it. I’ve seen how fascism turns out.

Also, unexpected bonus; I got a fun and expensive new hobby of putting holes in paper while converting money to loud noises.

dreamkitten24_the1st
8
2 months ago

I think people just hated Clinton and voted against her out of spite. Both candidates sucked but I took the election seriously and voted for her after Bernie lost to her aka she bought her way through (Bernie was/is who I wanted to win)

Darklegend222
3
2 months ago

I hope Burnie becomes president, he is the most faithful and least risk to the country. He wouldn't have done anything Trump did

dreamkitten24_the1st
3
2 months ago

I agree ❤️

PoundNaCL
13
2 months ago

It would be funny if it weren't true.
https://imgur.com/a/kTElN88

ethicsg
15
2 months ago

He gives unwanted fucks to the ladies!

starrpamph
11
2 months ago

*When you're a celebrity you can do that

chummypuddle08
2
2 months ago

They just let you do it

agitatedprisoner
10
2 months ago

They're all Negan.

starrpamph
1
2 months ago

"you hear him? He said "suck my nuts" haha"

StClevesburg
55
2 months ago

Nobody in the US are “his people” except for his equally corrupt millionaire cronies.

the_ocalhoun
40
2 months ago

And even those, he'd betray in a heartbeat if it benefited him personally.

ohbenito
19
2 months ago

thats the biggest part of the trick. he made the rank and file think it was about them being on his team and having a part of the proposed greatness he touted. the truth is they, we, us are all fodder for the machine seeking to extract every last cent from the market place of america.

[deleted]
18
2 months ago

[removed]

StClevesburg
38
2 months ago

Trump has literally nothing in common with that demographic and only exploits their ignorance to inflate approval ratings and attack any dissonants. They’re not his people. They’re his pawns.

Delioth
12
2 months ago

Well, they're the same-ish color. Which is a significant hunk of why they think they're his people.

FranckyboyShepard
2
2 months ago

Nah, he gave them the only thing they wanted: a regressive at the supreme court.

Oyd9ydo6do6xo6x
3
2 months ago

The poor racists would spend their last dollar buying him drinks at the bar....if he drank....and if he would ever allow himself to be in a rural establishment.

Exelbirth
23
2 months ago

Hey, be fair to the guy. The last president to care about the people first and foremost was Carter. Every president since has been the president of big business. Trump's just the first to blatantly violate the emoluments clause and make that phrase far more literal.

TheSaxonaut
13
2 months ago

You can't believe it? That's all Trump has ever done his entire adult life!

Rygar82
9
2 months ago

If the human race ends up surviving climate change, I hope that all these people will be vilified for all history.

AFocusedCynic
9
2 months ago

See... where you get it wrong is in saying “fellow humans”... we are not fellow humans for the elite. We are as good as cattle for them. Yes we hold value, but if they need to slaughter us for their gains they will, and have done many times in the past.

dreamkitten24_the1st
7
2 months ago

'guy makes TV show about firing people when they don't help enrich him'

' gets elected president by people who think he will get curruption out of politics'

'fires anyone and everyone who won't break the law for him to help him enrich himself'

everyone:' Pikachu shocked face'... Feel free to make that a meme but plz credit me :P

NuclearInitiate
3
2 months ago

You cant believe it? Really?

swebb22
4
2 months ago

A lot of the people who voted for him are old and arent going to live long enough to have to deal with the consequences of relying on oil for literally everything. My grandfather has repeatedly apologized to me for stuff his generation has left the country to deal with. Granted, some problems they could not forsee, but they also seem to be bull-headed about not changing to improve the future.

[deleted]
3
2 months ago

The GOP is definitely not getting their input from domestic interests.

CommandoWolf
3
2 months ago

Of note, he wasn’t even voted in, he was elected by the electoral college. Hillary had the majority vote. So he had/has even less people backing him.

Anon1sh
2
2 months ago

“His own people”

Bold statement

otterplus
2
2 months ago

I mean, he's been trying to "fack" his own daughter for years now so...

BiggerestGreen
2
2 months ago

It's been rough for the US the past 40 or so years. Reagan, then Bush Senior, the Clinton relief, but then right into Bush Junior, and now Trump. Obama and Clinton did what they could with 8 years each, but the Republicans have had 24 of the last 38 years. And it's become painfully obvious what the consequence of that is.

[deleted]
1
2 months ago

[removed]

standinaround
1
2 months ago

Shock horror.. Wont somebody Think of the children..

Exelbirth
11
2 months ago

What if we told him that coastal wind farms are a perfect way of preventing illegal immigrants from getting to the US by boat because they'd chop the boats to tiny pieces? Not a lick of truth to it, so he should believe it 100%.

soulsteela
2
2 months ago

Level 200 cunning!

[deleted]
2
2 months ago

I wonder if this tactic can be abused

indorian
280
2 months ago

This has been going on in our politics since A.L.E.C. (the American Legislative Exchange) was formed at the forefront of the lobbying movement. Since then they regularly submit prewritten laws/bills/wishlists for their paid representatives to pass, usually without even reading them through. Few in Congress seem to know the entirety of the bills they sponsor...it’s largely bargains and bribes.

2012Fiat500
2
2 months ago

Seems like they should have been called A.L.E.E.? Or alternatively, A.L.E.X.?

indorian
2
2 months ago

I left off the end, because I couldn't remember if it was council or something else, but the full name is the American Legislative Exchange Council, which probably makes more sense.

2012Fiat500
2
2 months ago

Ok, thanks!

Jman5
20
2 months ago

Yeah, Model Legislation is pretty widespread at the State level. Often times the industry ones will have deceptive names like the Asbestos Transparency Act which actually just makes it harder for victims to sue over asbestos exposure.

gwea22
2
2 months ago

Hey drain the swamp, right?

tofo90
163
2 months ago

According to the auto industry, bike lanes cause cancer.

Spaznaut
93
2 months ago

And according to Cheeto Mussolini so do windmills

TheSamurabbi
31
2 months ago

Must be why all of Holland is a cancer cluster. Think of that the next time you buy tulips and wooden shoes! You’re supporting cancer!

magnoliaskrimp
31
2 months ago

CHEETO MUSSOLINI FUCK YES

the_ocalhoun
12
2 months ago

*Cheeto Benito

WatchingUShlick
6
2 months ago

Lance Armstrong nods sagely

joyhammerpants
10
2 months ago

That's probably somewhat true. If you are Ina. Bike lane, you are probably breathing in exhaust. It's almost like cars cause cancer though...

Sun_King97
3
2 months ago

What was the rationale here?

Littleblaze1
3
2 months ago

It's obvious without the protective roof of my car the sun rays hit me directly which can cause skin cancer.

killersrejoice
21
2 months ago

I would say. Even tho that is correct, public transit is only effective in major city’s. If your in a rural area there is no such thing.

sciencemile
39
2 months ago

Park and Ride is usually the solution I've seen to make rural public transit more efficient.

killersrejoice
12
2 months ago

You are very correct. It’s not a full proof solution, but in varied circumstances it’s definitely a good option.

tongjun
20
2 months ago

full proof

fool-proof

/r/BoneAppleTea

SidewaysInfinity
24
2 months ago

And why do you think there's no such thing as public transit in rural areas? What's stopping a bus route from being established there? I grew up in the armpit of Alabama and if a fleet of school buses can handle the roads there every day then one built for public transit can too.

killersrejoice
16
2 months ago

Lack of jobs that are local. The school bus is a poor example, your bringing people that live in a certain area to a public destination. I’ve driven 40 minutes one way to a job before, with no coworkers that even passed thru. How would a bus driving all the way just to come to me be beneficial? park and ride is the closest option, even then your still, going to be driving to a meet point. It’s difficult in that regard.

flickering_truth
5
2 months ago

Public transport would encourage more residents, which could generate jobs.

DasConsi
3
2 months ago

If a halfway appropriately funded public transport network exists it will be used. In more remote areas you would have to work with a system consisting of trains and busses

wasmic
9
2 months ago

No, public transit is highly ineffective for rural areas. In order for transit to make sense, houses need to be clustered. In most of the USA, cities have deliberately been made for cars, and are therefore sprawling over vast distances. In most of Europe, cities stretch out along rail corridors rather than sprawling in all directions, and construction is densest around stations.

In typical American suburbia, roads are planned in a way that makes it almost impossible to service them effectively with any kind of public transit, since crucial connecting roads are missing, and everyone is forced to go the long way around. This means that the number of lines that are needed grows to be truly staggering, and if they are to be operated at any meaningful interval (30 minutes), then it would become prohibitively expensive. In European suburbia, all that is needed is usually a bus line to the nearest station, and even that is not always necessary since you're rarely more than 2 km from the nearest station, unless you're in a rural area.

Park-and-ride really is the best solution for rural areas. When self-driving cars become widespread, it will become an even more attractive option.

JoshuaZ1
4
2 months ago

The US actually had a lot of commuter rail in the midwest until the 1960s. Busses are tough, but commuter rail from towns where people walk or use other transport to get to rail stops works fine. Unfortunately, since the personal car was the wave of the future, we tore them all up.

agitatedprisoner
3
2 months ago

I agree, especially these days there's really zero reason for most people to own cars. We could vastly increase the number of buses and reduce the number of stops each bus makes to greatly reduce the time a person would need to spend waiting at bus stops or getting from A to B. For those truly in a hurry there are ride services. Were there a public will to do this we could probably take about 90% of the cars off the road.

Good for everyone but the auto companies and affiliated industries. Wish people could just figure out a way to share prosperity fairly so as to relieve individuals of the need to insist on doing things in ways that put more dollars in their own pockets while enpoverishing the rest of us.

DasConsi
2
2 months ago

I don't know too much about public transport in the US but my country has a state owned bus company that connects rural areas with bigger cities.

shadar12x
1
2 months ago

School buses also take forever which is why poeple dont take them when their is a choice.

TheUltimateShammer
1
2 months ago

There's nothing excuse for a lack of high speed rail infrastructure though. That can be implemented throughout rural areas.

Elmer_Fudd01
13
2 months ago

Well with major automotive makers no longer looking to make cheaper cars ( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.marketplace.org/amp/2018/11/26/business/why-american-car-companies-are-no-longer-selling-cars). mass transit will be more in demand, I wonder if any private companies will exist for mass transit for daily life. Like an Uber/Lyft bus company.

NRGT
2
2 months ago

wait for them to go the way of british leyland

try_____another
2
2 months ago

The difference is that they’re not their own top three biggest competitors and they’ve usually got the government actively helping them rather than wobbling between having to look like they support them without liking it and actively trying to prove it doesn’t work.

spinlock
11
2 months ago

*killed

The auto industry was convicted of collusion to buy and dismantle public transportation in 80 US cities. They were fined a few million dollars.

JTTRad
8
2 months ago

American corruption really pisses me off. Could we just forget about money for a minute and think about the planet?

kurisu7885
6
2 months ago

Aren't the efforts to prevent or kill public transit also steeped in some racism?

Marcusfromhome
3
2 months ago

There is the story of ripping up the Los Angeles public transit on the strength of the Tire/Auto/Gasoline lobby.

TEXzLIB
2
2 months ago

Yea, because nationalizing the Mexican, Iranian, Venezuelan, Indian, and Brqzilian oil comoanies worked out so well.

_______-_-__________
3
2 months ago

Oil and automotive lobbies also kill public transit proposals, despite the facts that definitively show that public transit is vastly more efficient, safer, and cost effective

Let me stop you right there. I can tell you exactly why public transit keeps dying out.

My area in New Jersey built a light rail system and I was pumped up about it. The stations were nice, the trains were nice, everything was nice. I ignored the people who said that it would bring crime.

I couldn't wait to ride it when it opened and it seemed really nice.

But then I began hearing stories how it did, in fact, increase crime near the stations. Ridership was low and fares only recover about 8% of the system's expenses.

I decided to ride it again because I didn't know why it got such a bad rap. It was horrible- there were low-life degenerates eating on it and throwing chicken bones on the floor, teenage thugs would get on without paying and just run up and down the aisles, I saw one dude pissing in the thing.

Never again. This is why projects like this don't gain more popularity. It's not that the concept of public transportation is bad, it's that in reality people just don't want to see people urinating in the cars, people puking in there, nutcases having meltdows, getting groped, etc.

Tzetvik
2
2 months ago

So you want to continue to waste trillions on cars just because you had a bad experience with an underfunded and poorly executed plan? Japan has a fairly strong public transport system, and these problems are uncommon there. Many other nations are expanding their public transit. It's not like the US is some magic place where public transit can't exist, it just needs to be properly looked over, funded, and maintained.

_______-_-__________
2
2 months ago

So you want to continue to waste trillions on cars just because you had a bad experience with an underfunded and poorly executed plan?

I'm saying that consumers vote with their wallets. It's not me that gets to choose whether people prefer public transportation or their own vehicles. I'm merely saying that most of the country feels the same way I do. You can spend the money and open up a public transport system but people generally prefer the independence of their own car.

Japan has a fairly strong public transport system, and these problems are uncommon there.

Japan has a homogenous population. Their culture is also very clean and orderly. Their population is also very concentrated in cities. These all make public transportation appealing.

It's not like the US is some magic place where public transit can't exist, it just needs to be properly looked over, funded, and maintained.

The US had most of its growth when cars were already popular. As a result our population is very spread out. This makes centralized things like public transportation difficult.

In dense cities they have public transportation and it makes sense there. But most people in the US live in suburbs, not cities. A lot of people don't realize this. Even census data is misleading about this because suburbs are classified as "urban" areas. My area is "urban" and it looks like this

Tzetvik
2
2 months ago

Part of Madrid recently placed new traffic restrictions that ban most cars. This is better off not left to the market. Ok, and maybe we need some better census data; I wouldn't call that area urban. Most suburban areas can still support public transit. If we're talking only about rural areas, then it's a different story. This needs to be handled on a community basis for buses.

ABoxOfFlies
1
2 months ago

Dying on a bus doesn't happen, you bear down on that shit until they kick you off, flames and all

braumumu
1
2 months ago

I love public transit! Take more people off the roads so there's less traffic for me to drive in, win-win really.

Shipless_Captain
1
2 months ago

Oink oink capitalist pigs

ultralightdude
2647
2 months ago

So politicians are trying to ban wind power in the place with the most wind? Seems legit. I wonder how this is a national security risk.

Aranore
1570
2 months ago

They are using fear

'If we rely on wind farms off the coast, those can be targeted and destroyed, and then, and then, well then we won't have power and we will die. But a coal plant they can't take or attack. It's in the heart of Merica'. \sarcasim

Edit: people think I'm pro this quote (that was made up) I think this thought is absurd.

But seriously I've seen that mentality being used to explain how it's to protect national threats. If the wind farms are too far away it makes the US vulnerable... Which, as others have pointed out, is a dumb thought. The farms wouldn't all be destroyed, single plants are more at risk of causing harm if destroyed and if the farms ARE being attacked and the aggressor is NOT being retaliated against there is some much bigger problem going on ( Like the US fleet being wiped out or something)

The policies and politics and politicians need to stop trying to prevent green initiatives to protect their pockets and money

[deleted]
1822
2 months ago

[removed]

gotham77
470
2 months ago

You mean if I break one the rest of them keep working? What black magic is this?

ThatsCrapTastic
332
2 months ago

They’re all wired up together using a single pair wire. If one goes out, they all go out. Just like the old Christmas tree lights.

SirDigbyChknCaesar
182
2 months ago

Goddammit, Rhode Island! Stop putting in the blinker turbine!

snadman28
4
2 months ago

Go get smashed for a fiver.

HarleyDavidsonFXR2
26
2 months ago

Should have wired them in parallel. Engineers these days. :shakes head: :shrugs shoulders:

dbx99
42
2 months ago

What if we slow down the wind too much. Then where will we find more wind?

Metascopic
20
2 months ago

we should put them in dc, thats where all the hot air is.

firebat45
15
2 months ago

Giant coal-powered fans to blow at the windmills

dbx99
9
2 months ago

Solar panels pointing at coal fire

dbx99
7
2 months ago

Look if you destroy windmills during a war, they won’t work anymore. Therefore we should not have them to begin with. What

szpaceSZ
2
2 months ago

Yes it's true. We should not have wars to begin with.

But ey how can we avoid war?! It's coming at us unexpectedly.

...looks at the list of global major military engagement of the last 70 years and who provoked or started the most...

Wait...

Wirenfeldt
28
2 months ago

I have to ask.. How often does that username actually work?

PM_ME_UR_CATS_TITS
55
2 months ago

Often enough

craziedave
15
2 months ago

Are you quoting Kevin Hart in the 40 year old virgin?

thefatorangecat
5
2 months ago

Can confirm. Source: https://youtu.be/DmYkt2RkhsI

i_am_barry_badrinath
2
2 months ago

Shake n bake!

dogGirl666
2
2 months ago

I don't understand wind farms, and I have to protect my kids from understanding it! We will not give in to the thinkers!

The_one_Kinman
68
2 months ago

Madam/Sir, you are using logic to debate a clearly uninformed and biased piece of legislation. That's against the rules.

[deleted]
84
2 months ago

[removed]

trixtopherduke
6
2 months ago

I enjoyed this video, thank you. Currently, a toxic person who I have to deal with, is doing this exact thing and now I have a better understanding the terminology and process. Thankfully, I've already learned to hold back on these "debates" and subject changing and it saves me a lot of time, despite my most powerful urge is to point out how totally wrong their arguments are- and it's nice to see all of this coherently explained.

Conffucius
28
2 months ago

"You can't reason people out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place"

KillNyetheSilenceGuy
6
2 months ago

You can't reason people out of a position they never actually held in the first place. Nobody honestly believes that offshore wind poses a national security risk so addressing the argument is a waste of your time. If you completely and irrefutably debunk it (unlikely) they'll just think up another lie and then change the subject. Anything less than that and they'll just keep repeating it to muddy the waters.

zolikk
35
2 months ago

This isn't strictly true. If you try destroying the turbines then yes, but each farm has one big substation it's all connected to, and the farms are in the several hundred MW range, so they're on the same scale as conventional power plant. Destroy the substation, no more power from the wind farm.

In fact it's easier to destroy the substation in case of a conventional powerplant as well. It's a much softer target.

MiaowaraShiro
65
2 months ago

Easier to rebuild too though. You're fixing the "wires" instead of the generators.

BruceLeePlusOne
34
2 months ago

I wonder if they could prefabricate substations and helicopter drop them in as needed.

Tatunkawitco
40
2 months ago

Careful expressing good ideas that counter their narrative - you’ll be labeled a threat.

BruceLeePlusOne
4
2 months ago

God, I fucking hope so. Then they'll probably kill me.

the_ocalhoun
22
2 months ago

Too big and too heavy for a helicopter drop, at least in one piece.

But yes, if this is a national security risk, then the best way to prepare for it would be to have some quickly-deployable replacement parts and repair crews, probably organized jointly between the power companies and the National Guard.

drot525
2
2 months ago

Modularization is a thing.

coldcursive
13
2 months ago

Mobile substations are a thing and are used in cases where you have to take a substation down for maintenance or upgrades

MiaowaraShiro
13
2 months ago

That's actually a really cool idea.

alphabennettatwork
10
2 months ago

Would've been a big hit in Puerto Rico.

mirhagk
7
2 months ago

Or you know, just have a redundancy?

Industrial uses use up a ton of power and if your nation is under attack turning those down for a few days while you repair is probably the least of your worries.

Any critical system should have its own backup systems, and as we move into the future that includes more than just gas generators.

Delioth
3
2 months ago

I'm just gonna store this for a cyberpunk novel that I'm never going to write or an RPG world that I'll never run.

AeternusDoleo
2
2 months ago

You'd think so, but there are only a few companies that produce that kind of equipment. It's a big concern if we ever get hit by a solar storm (CME), that a lot of substations fail simultaneously. Grid restoration would be difficult, since it is sadly not just "fixing wires".

https://www.ee.co.za/article/solar-storms-and-power-transformers-is-it-necessary-to-change-the-viewpoint.html

Freshaccount736
2
2 months ago

No, substation transformers can have really long lead times.

4EcwXIlhS9BQxC8
7
2 months ago

Cruise missiles launched from subs are a thing, the exact same thing can be said for any power station in land.

wolfkeeper
4
2 months ago

But with conventional generation you could target the powerplant and do much more damage, but that's not possible with wind turbines, you'd have to take them out individually, and if you target the substation it's relatively cheap to repair.

SterlingVapor
4
2 months ago

It really frustrates me that nuclear was fearmongered out of practice, in my mind it was a safe and effective way to go green decades sooner. The problems are grossly exaggerated (and shrink with each new generation), and statistically coal kills far more people (it even exposes locals to more radiation) - both per MW and in total

Now the problem is that the ramp-up time to get a nuclear plant online is too long, and wind/solar and storage are quickly looking better than nuclear for investors

Mc_Squeebs
6
2 months ago

Hey you.... PSST!.... Dont forget its republicans pushing this bullshit. Lets just keep a side tab on the score now.

Onemanrancher
5
2 months ago

This is why family and friendships across the country are falling apart. As much as you love a person, if after several hundred attempts at explaining to them that you'd rather not talk about political issues, and they just can't fucking stop bringing it up in any conversation... you gotta let them go.

Fuck FOX news..

uglygoose123
2
2 months ago

Thank you for what you said.

SynchroDreams
2
2 months ago

Futurology reddit rise up 😤✨🌏✨🌎✨🌍✨

Duckbilling
2
2 months ago

Can't do wind farms, they'll save United States citizens money

duglarri
2
2 months ago

Wind turbines are a massively profitable investment. Who are you people to interfere with other people's right to make money?

Who are the communists, now?

krafty369
1
2 months ago

BUT THEY CAUSE CANCER!!! /s

Edit:. Forgot my /s tag

RocksHaveFeelings2
3
2 months ago

Hey you dropped this

/s

dhelfr
16
2 months ago

John F Cenedy

[deleted]
18
2 months ago

[removed]

whatcolorwasit
2
2 months ago

johncena fried chicken

[deleted]
45
2 months ago

[removed]

ragnar_graybeard87
34
2 months ago

Precisely. It'd be a lot more devastating if a nuclear reactor was attacked in comparison to a bunch of windmills...

Morgrid
4
2 months ago

Reactors in the US were built with missile shields for a reason.

loctopode
2
2 months ago

There's the solution then, surround each wind turbine in a massive, impenetrable shield.

02C_here
32
2 months ago

I mean, the same argument can be said for major shipping ports ... if you wanted to cause America a lot of pain, sink some ships and block some channels. Yet wind turbines ... there’s a lot of them to provide power. It would be more work to take out a lot of turbines than a few ports.

And we still have these unsecured ports near the coast and we’re OK.

OnlyAnswerIsGhosts
39
2 months ago

I'm afraid those ports are also a national security risk and now must be build at least 100 miles from the coast or rivers.

02C_here
9
2 months ago

Fuck, I’m an idiot. That’s perfect. Put the ports 100 mi inland. :-)

szpaceSZ
2
2 months ago

I'll support the legislator who introduces this bill.

You know, I'm all sold on national security and reasons.

Kancho_Ninja
2
2 months ago

If I were an unstable evil genius, I'd blow a tanker with a tactical nuke under the Mississippi river bridge in New Orleans. That mess would be crippling.

Thankfully, I'm a stable evil genius.

YourAvocadoToast
2
2 months ago

I'd blow a tanker with a tactical nuke

Thankfully, I'm a stable evil genius.

Of course you're a stable evil genius.

That's why you're not going to blow it up. Someone will.

EvryMthrF_ngThrd
2
2 months ago

That's what expendable henchmen are for...

;)

02C_here
2
2 months ago

You wouldn’t even need a tactical nuke. You’d just have to scuttle a ship and block the shallow water. Wouldn’t take much explosive at all. If you did this at maybe 3 major ports and blocked the channels for a week while the mess was cleared, the economic effect would be staggering.

Retardedgoblin
23
2 months ago

The scariest part is how risky it is using electricity in general. What's stopping a tornado from pulling down my power lines? What happens if my outlet arcs and shocks me to death? What if my electronics become sentient and grow a taste for blood?

This is exactly why I only use candles and keep my meat fresh in a salt shed. I also perform theatre in my living room instead of relying on something as fleeting as an electric television.

Noone is going to catch me with my pants down.

blade740
5
2 months ago

Posted by Reddit Pigeons.

EvryMthrF_ngThrd
3
2 months ago

This is exactly why I only use candles

Ok, who's gonna be the one to tell him what candles are mostly used for these days? (Rymes with "HUMMIN' SATIN"...)

;)

Retardedgoblin
2
2 months ago

I have replaced all my candles with bioluminescent fungi to keep this a good, Christian household.

EvryMthrF_ngThrd
3
2 months ago

Ok, who's gonna tell this nice "Christian" Redditor why his fungi are REALLY glowing...

...not to mention its cousins Rubroboletus satanas and Clathrus archeri.
HINT: Don't let it it have a family get-together, you'll be DAMNED sorry. ;)

Danitoba
8
2 months ago

Or an oil rig thousands of miles away from US territory. Real smart.

thwgrandpigeon
7
2 months ago

Offshore oil can be hit at sea too. Maybe we should stop the drilling.

koshgeo
7
2 months ago

That doesn't even make sense. Wind farms are so spread out it would be a challenge to try to destroy them efficiently before someone would stop you, compared to a coal-fired plant at one site where a single, modest-sized bomb would do the job. If it's the electrical connection to the grid that is the key point, it's a similar risk to any other regular power plant. On top of that, the US is still a net importer of oil and anything that reduces such a dependency on the stability of far-flung corners of the world is a strategic plus.

I'm not saying damaging offshore wind farms couldn't be done. Of course it could. However, if someone can do that right off the coast of a country with the biggest navy in the world, you've got bigger problems on your plate than whether you can make do in a time of war with slightly less than peak electrical generation capacity from only the central part of the country. I mean, how many nuclear power plant and thermal-fired power plants are located on the coast because of the need for convenient cooling?

Poguemohon
5
2 months ago

Except when the science of the impact wind turbines have to reduce the destruction of storms then we will know who is truly threatening our safety.

Aranore
2
2 months ago

The storms right?

MacDerfus
2
2 months ago

No, it's Jeff from accounting

Nuclear_rabbit
4
2 months ago

Nevermind that they are kind of arguing, "if we have fewer nice things, then our enemies won't be able to destroy as many of our nice things!"

pallentx
3
2 months ago

and cancer. Don't forget the cancer...

starkiller_bass
4
2 months ago

That's why we don't have any nuclear or fossil fuel power plants in coastal regions, right?

Oh wait.

Disrupter52
2
2 months ago

Good thing we have the most powerful navy ever to fight off the entire planet all at once #maganavy.

Also /s for those of you in the cheap seats.

LighTMan913
2
2 months ago

But a coal plant they can't take or attack. It's in the heart of Merica'

Well... Kansan here and there's a pretty big campaign going against windpower so... Heart of Merica' excuse is bullshit. Not saying you're wrong, just pointing out how idiotic this shit is.

FeelDeAssTyson
2
2 months ago

They are using fear

https://imgur.com/gallery/dJRzOJ5

zwartekaas
2
2 months ago

Wew, so the argument is forreal about attacks? These guys played too much CnC.

(then again, hearing "low power", was pretty annoying)

RockerElvis
66
2 months ago

Koch brothers. They are also the ones that crippled solar in Florida. You know, the f-ing sunshine state.

Turtley13
57
2 months ago

It's not. It's just a lie.

SidewaysInfinity
34
2 months ago

Well you see, the windmills are actually communist giants

the_ocalhoun
107
2 months ago

As a former Air Force radar tech...

You might have to black out the area of the wind farm itself to avoid false positives ... but only the wind farm itself. You can set the radar system to ignore things in any specific area, both vertically and horizontally. So while you might need to black out the wind farm itself, you can still see things behind the wind farm and still see things above the wind farm. The only radar contacts you'll actually miss are aircraft flying directly among the windmills.

Unless the wind farms are so extensive that aircraft could fly inside them across long distances in order to avoid detection, it's not a big deal.

PureImbalance
42
2 months ago

what is this... a moving wind farm... sir, they have camouflaged their planes by flying a wind farm around!

beerigation
18
2 months ago

Just start using all prop planes. Checkmate military.

fb39ca4
2
2 months ago

Now I want to see a plane with 160 meter props.

TastyPoptard
12
2 months ago

That sounds like the premise for an Ace Combat mission.

Rishfee
3
2 months ago

Not enough flying through underground tunnels. But yeah, I could see that being a gimmick for one of the infiltration missions. I always liked that one where they just give you a camera, so it's like an actual intel collection gone sideways.

Jazzspasm
10
2 months ago

Good info

I’m totally guessing, but I’d imagine submarine craft would want to avoid the hell out of those areas for multiple reasons, too.

the_ocalhoun
20
2 months ago

Yes, flying among a wind farm would be very dangerous. Low altitude flying among a lot of tall, moving obstacles, and the motion of the blades might interfere with your own terrain-following radar (assuming you have that), so you'd have to do it manually.

It might be possible to slowly and carefully thread your way through in a helicopter, but it would be hellishly dangerous in a fixed-wing aircraft.

COMPUTER1313
8
2 months ago

It might be possible to slowly and carefully thread your way through in a helicopter

The turbulence and varying air pressure regions around the wind turbines could make that a major pucker factor. One strong gust of wind and suddenly the laws of physics decide it's more favorable for your helo to be banked hard/left and plunge into a wind turbine blade.

PM_ME_UR_SYLLOGISMS
2
2 months ago

I sure as hell wouldn't want to try and pilot a submarine through a field of windmills.

JCDU
2
2 months ago

+1 for adding some good technical info to the bun fight ;)

hiernonymus
2
2 months ago

Crop dusters get surprisingly close in my experience.

Overcriticalengineer
17
2 months ago

They’re the modern day Don Quixote.

illtemperedklavier
1
2 months ago

Don Quixote? Or Don Trump?

MoldyKetchup95
18
2 months ago

It's a security risk to their "donations" from oil companies

impossiblefork
4
2 months ago

These things can actually interfere with radar, but when it's a problem the military will tell you not to build them.

ABetterKamahl1234
1
2 months ago

Could they not build radar installations out further, and have those just push the data back to the mainland?

Seems to me like an easy solution rather than diminishing your countries power grid like that.

impossiblefork
3
2 months ago

It all depends where they have their radar installations, how they intend to fly, move mobile radar units, and many other things.

Here in Sweden the military once complained about a particular planned wind turbine. However, these things are apparently a general problem. It's all high objects, not just wind turbines.

idkman4779
1
2 months ago

It will probably blow away trumps' pubes stuck on his head, that's why he thinks it can cause a national emergency!

fatguyinalitlecar
1
2 months ago

They're just looking out for us so we don't get cancer from the wind mills **WEENG WEENG WEENG**

toronto_programmer
1
2 months ago

Well they call a Canada a national security risk to mess with our steel industry so anything is possible now

OB1_kenobi
491
2 months ago

TIL that, if there's enough money at stake, some people will try and piss against the wind.

Good luck with that.

ClairesNairDownThere
159
2 months ago

If there was enough money at steak, people would shit into the fan.

[deleted]
76
2 months ago

[removed]

Just_Browsing_XXX
28
2 months ago

What a shit storm.

Cadena_
14
2 months ago

I think you mean a shitshow

PM_ME_UR_SYLLOGISMS
2
2 months ago

The shit show will not be televised.

Poor__cow
2
2 months ago

You smell that, Randy? The shitwinds are blowin’.

millstech
11
2 months ago

What kind of steak are we talking about here? Doesn't sound like any establishment I'll be dining at.

guileKlein
2
2 months ago

Steak? Your comment is both delicious and disgusting at the same time.

SpicyBagholder
9
2 months ago

It's always money, when ever something happens, just ask, who is the big loser here. Are there billions at risk?

Fuckmandatorysignin
6
2 months ago

Yep. This is...this is just criminally cynical.

I can at least put myself in the shoes of a climate change denier and see how they can genuinely doubt it, but I can’t see how any politician could be genuinely concerned about the ‘security flaws’ of a distributed generator like wind.

ScottyC33
453
2 months ago

What an insane argument. Does this mean that they're also arguing for shutting down every single offshore oil platform and and all of the Oil Refineries (that are almost all in coastal areas)? Somehow I doubt it.

Dr_Marxist
179
2 months ago

You can't parse the logic here, because it doesn't exist.

Like most "ideas" that come from the right, it's just about power and money, and centralizing both to people already at the top. If we apply a rigorous analysis here it doesn't work, because it's not supposed to.

375612
69
2 months ago

I don’t think this is a “right or left” issue, I think its a capitalist and lobbying issue.

Right now these companies have a choke hold on the American judicial and legistlative system. They enforce heavy lobbying so they can further their own greed and disguise it in the best interest of the people, rather than openly stating their intentions, as it would be bad press.

I believe the mentioned quote “Make Orwell Fiction Again” works fairly well here.

MJBrune
60
2 months ago

While you are somewhat correct. It's not an inherently a right or left issue but when one party is taking more money than the other from corporations and clearly acting more inline with those corporations needs then it becomes a right or left issue.

CrookedHoss
29
2 months ago

The people taking money amd spending money to enforce existing hierarchies will almost invariably be primarily conservative.

PM_ME_CATS_OR_BOOBS
3
2 months ago

It's also important to divorce the concept of a right wing mindset from modern conservatism. They don't want small businesses and small government. They want the aristocracy to come back.

weedysexdragon
6
2 months ago

I would submit that the conservatives are right wing In the US. No one on the US can be said to want small government. Certainly not conservatives.

Lukavian
2
2 months ago

Libertarians would disagree. Many of them want nearly no government, more or less by definition.

Finianb1
2
2 months ago

Which is just as ridiculous.

Lukavian
2
2 months ago

There are some compelling arguments, but most are super unaware of how borked late stage capitalism really is, and how a minimal government approach in our already sideways system would pretty much destroy the entire bottom half of our economy. Wealth inequality is already at really unsettling, unreasonable levels. Some laws reinforce it, sure, but a lot help mitigate it as well. I think it's mostly a draw for people who are sick of the government in all its forms and functions, and want to make it as minimal as possible. Let the free market sort things out without all that interference.

They're absolutely out there. And their philosophy is absolutely batshit.

Barron_Cyber
5
2 months ago

yup. fuck the imbicilles that support this. they are just harming themselves and their kids.

Turtle_of_rage
3
2 months ago

Don't forget that most nuclear plants are on the coast as well.

culnaej
2
2 months ago

Nope. In fact, the DOI is gearing up for the most expansive offshore drilling program in the nation’s history in many of the same areas “off-limits” to wind energy

chilltrek97
316
2 months ago

United States of America has lived long enough to turn from the hero of 20th century that helped defeat the Nazis and bring down the USSR to now being the villain of the 21st century with the most obnoxious and idiotic ideas to oppose clean technology even though the country itself has the highest historic emissions on the planet.

Scope_Dog
125
2 months ago

Well, more specifically, it's the GOP. Seems they find new ways to disgust me almost daily.

DuncanStrohnd
158
2 months ago

No, it’s the United States of America.

Nobody outside of the US cares who in particular is fucking it up, or knows what the GOP is - it’s all just “Americans”.

That means while you’re sitting there in America saying “it’s those guys”, the rest of the world sees no difference between “those guys” and you.

They only see “American”.

Tick___Tock
124
2 months ago

"It wasn't us Germans, it was the Nazi party!"

Germany was still responsible.

Proud_Idiot
27
2 months ago

This is so true

JustPoopinNotThinkin
7
2 months ago

If you were an American, what would you do to change the US?

DuncanStrohnd
2
2 months ago

Now there’s a question.

I’d get to know the political situation locally, find someone I can get behind and back them. That means at the very least engaging people when I get the chance in person and online and letting them know there’s someone I feel is worth supporting. I would also look at lending some of my time volunteering if I could.

If that person doesn’t exist, it’s a nice thought to think I could be that person, but realistically I can’t see it for personal reasons - but I would stay active politically and look for that person.

There’s a long tradition of civil action in Europe (I grew in England in the 70’s/80’s), and I found it strange how much Canadians would tolerate when I came here. Same goes for the US. The problem is one of geography - it’s simply too difficult for Americans or Canadians to march on the capital in their millions.

So the government has less to fear from their populace and the average citizen feels powerless day to day.

The thing is, 320 million people are far from powerless. It’s simply a matter of will and purpose.

Having said that, America will have to be a horrible place for everyone to drop tools and march on Washington.

Here’s hoping it never gets there - or maybe the marching needs to happen before it ever gets that bad.

Either way, something has to happen, and someone has to do it. If not you or me, then who?

Thanks for the question.

JustPoopinNotThinkin
2
2 months ago

The issue comes from our information outlets. Everything is one sided, and who is going to make sure what they are reading is credible. People here get into arguments over what place makes burgers better, we fight over sports. Same goes for where you get your information. Oh you can't trust so and so news, oh you only think that because you watch the other news. Well we have millions of people who are brainwashed into thinking their news and info outlet speaks only truth and fact. Now the youth is separating from old news and info traditions and that's causing all kinds of issues for the people with money to keep the system feeding the pockets. There is no 'right' way to fix this. We literally just need the old fucks that allowed this to happen to get out of office and allow for new ideas to come through and have a chance. Like renewables, gene editing, expanded drug research, universal basic income there are many other fields that are slowed down because of old ways of viewing the world. Such as, assuming all of a certain people think and act the same.

[deleted]
2
2 months ago

[removed]

Scope_Dog
5
2 months ago

Sure, I get that. But I live here and from where I stand, they are the only ones denying facts and obfuscating the discussion and standing in the way of meaningful progress on climate change. Do you deny that?

[deleted]
2
2 months ago

[removed]

Scope_Dog
5
2 months ago

Oh I agree. But I think it’s helpful to recognize that at least half of the country is horrified at what is going on here. It is truly a disaster of epic proportions.

koyo4
3
2 months ago

Yup no one gives a shit. The culture breeds divisiveness. Problem is the protagonist syndrome in the US where everyone believes they're perspective is universally shared and understood in their way. So they believe everyone sees their side and are sympathetic like "aww poor you having to deal with the other politics spectrum."

Bleh.

alexffs
3
2 months ago

European here, can confirm. Most people here think that the way the US is going is flat out insane - while everywhere else is progressing on issues like the climate, the US pulls out of the Paris agreement and generally taking two steps back every time the rest of the world takes a step forward.

Something needs to change. We can't have one of the biggest countries in the world being so regressive, and fuck up for the rest of us.

Some people here know a bit more than average about politics in the US, but to the average person, it's definetely just "Americans are fucking up". And I get it. It is a democracy after all. These people were voted into office. The American people voted this into happening.

NephilimNutz
2
2 months ago

Well, they are ignorant then. Who cares what they think?

robotzor
9
2 months ago

Campaign donations to support industries do not see in any color other than green.

Look at telecom in any district. Or pharma. Or anything. Look further up the chain for the corruption rather than side to side.

rotomangler
22
2 months ago

Let’s not pretend that big oil ie: the Republican Party isn’t behind this stuff

robotzor
9
2 months ago

I'm not pretending anything. These arguments always devolve into "but your side" "at least my side doesn't" solving nothing which is exactly how those rich people like it.

[deleted]
18
2 months ago

[deleted]

sr0me
15
2 months ago

But the Republican party openly supports unlimited lobbying and campaign financing, along with gutting any and all regulations. How is continuing to vote for them not the issue?

NotTipsy
1
2 months ago

Well we weren't going to die the hero..

Jman5
1
2 months ago

It comes and goes. Things are going along well (for those who can vote at least). Then over several decades the wheels start slowly coming off. Eventually there reaches a point where you get a strong push back and there is a flurry of reforms passing new legislation and closing loopholes that were screwing up our democracy and quality of life.

Things then go well for a bit, until the wheels start coming off again in a different way.

spelunk_in_ya_badonk
274
2 months ago

One time I was driving down a highway in rush hour. Bumper to bumper traffic on a drive that takes 40 minutes without traffic. Then, I hear sirens. An ambulance was trying to push through. People pulled off the road (onto the grass) to allow the ambulance to pass. Then, before those people could get back on the road, cars that were further back zoomed ahead to opportunistically take advantage of the new space. Except that left people who did the right thing stuck on the side of the road.

That’s what these republican lawmakers are doing. Trump opened up the traffic lanes with his bullshit anti-wind agenda, and now the Oil and Gas politicians are taking advantage of that momentum.

niibyokeika
55
2 months ago

iT CaUSes CAnCeR

Tasty_Yam
3
2 months ago

According to the state of California at least

Thoff95
42
2 months ago

I like this analogy, well put.

CanteDulpepper
3
2 months ago

I witnessed that in Chicago years ago, bumper to bumper cars with a few feet to maneuver out of the way for the ambulance, but there were a couple fuck heads that actually cut in front of the ambulance, as well as a few behind

Idiot_Savant_Tinker
120
2 months ago

This is so unbelievably backwards. Let me see if I can explain how this looks to me.

I live in a state that is working against the banning of plastic bags. We're constantly in the bottom of the barrel in education. Our infrastructure is crumbling. And of course, nearly everyone supports the GOP/Trump. (There is a minority of people, myself included, who do not, lets not put everyone in the same mentally deficient bucket)

And in this backwards state, we still have wind turbines because it's a good place for them.

As an overalls-wearing, pickup-truck owning, harley riding resident of OK, it cheers me up every time I see a convoy of turbine blades and other related parts being moved down the highway near my house.

Just_Browsing_XXX
13
2 months ago

You guys got a streetcar though

Idiot_Savant_Tinker
6
2 months ago

Did we? I guess I've been out of the loop.

Just_Browsing_XXX
7
2 months ago

Yeah, in OKC

zachxyz
8
2 months ago

Oklahoma is doing fine. Things could be better but I wouldn't say the infrastructure is crumbling or the education is bottom of the barrel.

Idiot_Savant_Tinker
19
2 months ago

There are bits of bridges falling on cars all the time, and we've more potholes than michigan without the snow.

scizormytimbers
10
2 months ago

As a MI native, I'm happy that we're the go-to comparison for potholes.

zachxyz
4
2 months ago

At least in my area, all those shitty bridges were wiped out when it flooded pretty heavily a few years ago. Bad power lines and such don't really last long in Oklahoma. Of course, we shouldn't wait until a natural disaster to upgrade that stuff. It's a slow process but it wouldn't surprise me if Oklahoma becomes self-sufficient with wind energy in my lifetime. Wind farms are popping up everywhere.

kurisu7885
4
2 months ago

As a Michigan resident who has a huge pothole just outside his house, yikes.

the_ocalhoun
19
2 months ago

I wouldn't say the infrastructure is crumbling or the education is bottom of the barrel.

Well, it ranks 43rd/50 in education. Maybe not the bottom of the barrel, but definitely not the part of the barrel where you want to be.

zachxyz
2
2 months ago

That's odd. I see they are ranked 33rd and 39th on the rankings I found.

[deleted]
10
2 months ago

"Oklahoma is doing fine"

wat

ImmemorAugur
6
2 months ago

Missed opportunity to say "Oklahoma is doing OK"

SageLukahn
2
2 months ago

We are doing fine but education is really kind of a mess...

Devadander
5
2 months ago

Thought you were talking about my dumbass state for a minute.

bigedthebad
117
2 months ago

I regularly drive from Austin thru Abilene to the panhandle of Texas. There is a campaign in that area south of Abilene to stop wind turbines, I see these big obnoxious signs all the time. Most of that are is land with nothing on it, some is very hilly, you can't farm it, I see only a few cattle on occasion, no one is using it until recently when they started putting up wind turbines. Useless land that now has a use and a use that doesn't harm the environment.

The ONLY reason I can figure for the opposition is the oil and gas industry, which is HUGE in Texas but why can't these two things co-exist? Why aren't oil companies using their tax free income to get into the wind and solar business? Why isn't business and tech friendly Texas jumping on this shit with both feet.

It's a mystery to me...

P.S. I wonder the same thing about our stance on marijuana. Texas could be the biggest marijuana producer in the world within a year, we could all be driving Cadillacs.

luminick
42
2 months ago

Being from Abilene, the only reason I can figure for the opposition is "Abilene". I literally tell anybody who tells me they visited Abilene that "I'm sorry."

So....

I'm sorry.

cjr91
27
2 months ago

I don't know about Abilene but Texas is one of the top wind power producers in the United States. So it seems the oil and wind industries do co-exist whether they like it or not.

bigedthebad
2
2 months ago

There are some giant wind farms in Texas, it seems half the panhandle is a wind farm but once again, there isn't much else up there.

cakemuncher
4
2 months ago

And IMO they actually look pretty. Especially at night.

pxlpshr
6
2 months ago

The guy who really kicked off the wind farm investments in the panhandle is T Boone Pickens, an oil catter.

5fd88f23a2695c2afb02
2
2 months ago

There’s a growing anti wind farm movement a la anti vaccine - so they’re being attacked from multiple sides.

bigedthebad
2
2 months ago

Most of it is probably bullshit, just like the anti-vaccine trend.

nomattawut
1
2 months ago

Good point about weed, never thought about that.

the_ocalhoun
30
2 months ago

Rome lasted far, far longer.

xxkoloblicinxx
10
2 months ago

Eh, it was about this time when the dictators started rolling in... just sayin'

BullshitVirusLink
44
2 months ago

Are republicans actively trying to make it worse for everyone? i don't get it, they seem to act so cartoonishly evil from everything i read about republicans

personae_non_gratae_
20
2 months ago

Greedy

Old

Pricks

are paid to labor against the common good.

whatmynamebro
6
2 months ago

Are you surprised. It really seems that the Republicans only care about the money that they have. The money they can take from others. And they will do anything to stop anyone from trying to take that from them.

They just don’t care about anybody that doesn’t have the same blood as them or their own personal investments.

Jazzspasm
31
2 months ago

One of the reasons for this is the wind farms create black spots on radar - they’re an entry point for water and air craft looking to evade detection.

It’s not about climate change deniers and fossil fuel huggers.

It’s a genuine national security issue, and not restricted to the US.

I know this doesn’t fit the narrative, but it’s actually a thing.

https://www.weather.gov/mkx/windfarm

There are alternatives but as far as I’m aware, only one company is manufacturing sea based wind turbines that may, perhaps, mitigate the effect

https://www.terma.com/surveillance-mission-systems/wind-farm-solutions/wind-farm-radar-mitigation/

The Department of Energy is researching with multiple organisations to work out a solution to this so that wind farms don’t cause this problem

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2018/04/f51/WTRM_Factsheet_Final_2018.pdf

woopwoopskadoop
34
2 months ago

also posted in this thread is the military refuting its actually an issue for us atm.

and they'll likely let us know when it is. so no need for the bills.

Jazzspasm
5
2 months ago

Yeah, i think i posted one of those links about the Navy saying it’s not that big an issue.

That said, it’s not just the Navy that gets the final say, of course.

woopwoopskadoop
12
2 months ago

if its not an issue for the navy then its unlikely its an issue for any of the other armed services.

JBStroodle
10
2 months ago

So In general, it’s just a weak position to hold and is greatly out weighed by the necessity to preserve the planet for our descendants.

Mash_tun
5
2 months ago

Adding on to my other comment, the part of this that is troublesome is lawmakers making blanket rules that exclude huge areas from wind development. Meanwhile, the DoD and FAA already review every single proposed wind turbine and have approval authority over any location.

[deleted]
4
2 months ago

[deleted]

Jazzspasm
3
2 months ago

Nah, that guy copy / pasted my comment.

I’ve been here seven years and i think that’s a first. At least, that i know of.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Not sure what to think lol

GopherAtl
3
2 months ago

Thanks, had to scroll down way too far to find someone actually laying out the national defense argument; the article itself doesn't, skipping straight to dismissing the argument as obviously just a bullshit anti-green measure.

Bud72
3
2 months ago

While I don't doubt your information, how much of a security issue could that possibly be? And why would it not be possible to mitigate these issues with better security at the windfarm site? It seems like a rather insignificant issue to ban windfarms for.

herrbdog
3
2 months ago

Thank you for that information. o7

420mcsquee
2
2 months ago

It is an entire fabrication that uses a few news outlets to try to validate the false claims.

It does not create blind spots at all that would cover over 100miles.

It could be localized to a 10 mile radius and still be easy to see if something pops out with only 10 miles of damage the supposed enemy could do before detection.

This is just a throw a number out there that looks small, but is actually quite unecesarily large. For another pupose entirely. Even more obvious is when it is claimed as national security.

There is another reason for the 100mi ban. To keep most areas inpossible to install wind power on. Look at a map. Go 100 miles inland at any point where we touch ocean. Then go inland and see how many areas are even left that could have wind power.

Every article you posted with the copy-paste is manufactured consent. It is entirely fabrication to brainwash more people.

[deleted]
1
2 months ago

[deleted]

Jazzspasm
5
2 months ago

Motion detectors near a wind farm aren’t going to be much use, bearing in mind that the blades are supposed to be turning, and cameras require eyes on the screens 24/7 for there to be any utility from them.

Radar systems operate as a network, with alert systems for a unified defense strategy. Having one area which isn’t covered by that network creates a hole, and that’s exploitable, rendering the network ineffective.

[deleted]
2
2 months ago

[deleted]

Homey_D_Clown
-1
2 months ago

Wow that response is all kinds of dumb.

[deleted]
32
2 months ago

[removed]

bodrules
25
2 months ago

your bought and paid for representatives don't care about that, they've been paid to do this.

generick182
4
2 months ago

The same idiots that use the term "National Security" have never served in the military or have any idea what the term means. It's a buzzword they use to fire up their base of MEPS drop outs, the <10 ASVAB scoring AR-15 carrying in Walmart idiots who will be the first ones to die in an actual crisis as their hearts give out trying to run up one flight of stairs.

natemb123
3
2 months ago

Same goes for any fossil fuel power plant really. You could blow up a substation at a wind or solar farm and kill its output but they could rebuild it in a few months quite cheaply. You could instead destroy the main building of a coal/gas/nuke plant and it could take a decade or two to rebuild at the full cost of the plant.

taien
28
2 months ago

Surprise! The people who really control money in America are distressed that some may be leaking from their pockets...

superamericaman
16
2 months ago

It's the same old story. Conservatism, by definition, is resistant to change. But today's conservatism is funded by industrial dollars to shoot down any change that might threaten the immediate bottom line, rather than forcing the adaptation of new, beneficial technology.

Basically subsidization of outdated technology for no reason other than laziness and continued corruption.

garrett_k
3
2 months ago

Don't forget Ted Kennedy blocking the installation of offshore wind turbines because that's where he goes sailing.

Reacher-Said-Nothing
16
2 months ago

I'm gonna go ahead and guess this was a Republican idea.

Oceanonomist
14
2 months ago

Republicans are quite possible the single dumbest group of people on this planet and that's impressive because we have anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers.

BabaOrly
3
2 months ago

It's not stupidity, it's cupidity.

spinlock
2
2 months ago

You act like those are distinct groups.

hobosockmonkey
9
2 months ago

How the hell does a massive ass metal fan give you cancer? Do the sound waves reverberate at just the right level that they give you cancer? Are they made of super carcinogenic metal materials that are blown into populated areas?

Wtf are people on about, make them more popular and force the dumbasses who want to poison our environment with oil actually evolve and adapt

5fd88f23a2695c2afb02
2
2 months ago

The concept is that the infra sound produced by the rotating blades causes health ills.

natemb123
3
2 months ago

Large animals produce infrasound. Are you trying to tell me that cows can moo me into having cancer? What about whale songs? Can I relax myself to death? Come on.

hobosockmonkey
2
2 months ago

Sounds like a load of bologna haha

PartonQ
2
2 months ago

Don't downvote this guy, he's explaining their shitty position, not agreeing with it.

... right?

[deleted]
11
2 months ago

[removed]

bestofwhatsleft
10
2 months ago

Oh, he understands... He's just looking out for his own interests.

cydalhoutx
8
2 months ago

Disgusting. If oil and natural gas companies cannot keep up to date with the demand for renewable energy then they need to shut down and not go about killing competition by outlawing it. Fuck them and the politicians that allow it

searching4self
8
2 months ago

Even if this is true, it's still an AWFUL reason to stop pursuing renewable energy.

DJ_Molten_Lava
7
2 months ago

The US is so profoundly corrupt I don't know how the idiot masses tolerate it.

JeffersonClippership
3
2 months ago

They're idiots

RotisserieBums
8
2 months ago

I really think we should be focusing on nuclear... but this is insane. Banning windpower is fucking stupid, and so are the people doing it.

ReaperSage
2
2 months ago

Why not both? I feel like with how hard Nuclear's been lobbied against we've lost actual decades of progress because of the conception of a nuclear meltdown/explosion, that alternatives should come along to help ease in the general idea. I'm still extremely sure that while I know Nuclear energy is actually very much safe when done correctly and not lazily, I imagine ALOT of Americans think Nuclear and immediately go to Uranium Bomb explosions and radioactive materials leaking everywhere.

Problem is that if there's one thing a nation with no upper limit of wealth hates, is people taking their wealth. I honestly don't apply logic to it, because there is none. These people would much rather roll in the short-term capitalistic gains rather than the long-term idea of not actively draining the planet like an empty juice box. And then they'll blame everyone else for allowing it to happen.

Vehayah
8
2 months ago

That statement is false. Anyone wanting to start a wind farm accessed map provided by the bureau of land management. Anyone who thinks that is is defense maps are vastly misinformed or just ignorant to reality

FBogg
7
2 months ago

what would we do without the republican party saving us from wind cancer

podcastman
2
2 months ago

Ctrl-F wind cancer. Trump actually claimed windmills cause cancer.

RMJ1984
7
2 months ago

What is going on in America, land of the ignorant ?. The security threat is in the White House and i suggest you get rid of it.

If Windpower is a security risk? then what is coal?, natural gas "fracking" messes up drinking water?. Trump?.

There needs to be some research done into the drop in intelligence in America, is it inbreeding? is it pollution?, something in the water?. Wtf is going on.

America heading straight for the dark ages, because the sheep is afraid and don't act.

dreamkitten24_the1st
2
2 months ago

If the people had any control, trump would have been hanged for treason a long time ago. He didn't win popular vote and the Russians helped him get into office

generick182
5
2 months ago

So renewable wind energy causes cancer and also doesn't support the Troops. Next, wind energy will be blamed for communism, the black plague, and killing Uncle Ben.

slicktromboner
6
2 months ago

If this should come to pass, I hope that California tells them to find a nice, warm, moist place to put their coal.

Tyetus
5
2 months ago

Do these same people also think they cause cancer too?

JakeTheDork
5
2 months ago

We need to start a beautiful windmills campaign. Something like those old posters. Wind is green energy. They look like beautiful flowers. Every turn off the props replacing some unknown amount of coal burning.

AminusBK
6
2 months ago

Aaaaand of course it's republicans, it's always republicans; the ball-and-chain of society.

NotSoComicSans
6
2 months ago

Fucking retarded Americans. 🤦‍♂️ I may as well just move out of this dipshit country.

5fd88f23a2695c2afb02
5
2 months ago

No, please help change it for the benefit of all of us that don’t get a say.

idkman4779
5
2 months ago

Now wind power poses national security risk? Lmao these dipshits are stupid and retarded!

Hrodrik
5
2 months ago

These legislators and the people that pay them to do this should be tried and executed for crimes against humanity.

iwakan
5
2 months ago

Seeing the same pushback against wind here in Norway, saying that it destroys our nature. It's crazy to me, clean energy like wind is the only way to save our nature, we need as much of it as we can possibly get.

Alexisadickface
4
2 months ago

Fuck oil companies who are most likely pushing this

Victim_of_Reagan
4
2 months ago

Imagine declining going to automobiles because the horse and buggy industry kept a stranglehold on the transportation sector.

They're hurting the rest of us to maintain their profit margins.

[deleted]
4
2 months ago

[deleted]

MisterSquirrel
2
2 months ago

A radar at a wind farm would need only be positioned slightly higher than the turbines to perform perfectly with no interference.

The_Young_Busac
5
2 months ago

I think this bill (senate bill 377) has good intention, but is executed poorly. Very poorly. It is true that wind farms pose a legitimate risk to aviators, mainly from the MET towers that go unmarked and typically constructed without notifying local airports, but that can easily be legislated and changed. To completely remove the possibility of building wind farms in these areas is silly. I'd be interested to see who is sponsoring the north Carolina senators campaigning.

LinearFluid
3
2 months ago

The National Security Threat is that we won't piss off as many other countries when we go and plunder their oil resources so we will not be in as many wars which means no big paydays for those that "protect" our National Security.

inkseep1
2
2 months ago

What happens to the value of the petrodollar when alternative energy replaces the need for oil?

The_Write_Stuff
3
2 months ago

The bill argues that wind farms pose a national security risk and uses Department of Defense maps to essentially outlaw wind farms built on land within 100 miles of the state’s coast.

F'ing rich people. Don't want to pay taxes, don't want wind turbines intruding on their ocean view.

newbscaper3
2
2 months ago

Why is the government so keen on killing the earth...

Honkadoo
2
2 months ago

because fuck the earth there's money to be made.

obimk1
3
2 months ago

Because the US is such a tiny, and tiny small country. No wonder there is no room for these gigantic contraptions.

/s

RickyMuncie
2
2 months ago

I wouldn't be a bit shocked to find out that wind is secretly trying to tank solar, that solar is working to screw over wind, and that fossil is messing with everyone.

We are all for sale.

Vaeon
2
2 months ago

How did I know, before I even clicked the link, that it was Republican legislatures?

jeefray
3
2 months ago

The coal powered power plants are shutting down but they still provide 30% of our grid's electricity in the US. In 20 months all this garbage legislation should be gone, after Republicans receive a good drubbing at the polls in 2020.

NoBSforGma
3
2 months ago

This would be hilarious if it wasn't so incredibly stupid. Obviously, bought and paid for by gas/oil/coal/nuclear money. Should probably be posted in "Not the Onion."

[deleted]
3
2 months ago

Can you imagine being so dense that you can be convinced that WIND MILLS are a threat to the environment and not coal. Fucking dipshit pubs

truckaxle
3
2 months ago

Wind Farms are defense friendly sources of energy. Wind farms are by nature distributed and spread out. Wind farms (and pv Solar) are resistant to attacks. Coal fire plants are concentrated forms of energy sources and can be taken out with a single missile or bomb.

See Amory Lovins who pointed this out years ago in his hard vs soft energy policy.

Hahonryuu
1
2 months ago

Who's the shitty debunked fake degree "scientist" who's coffee stained scribbles they based this shit off of?

DEAD_P1XL
3
2 months ago

Ah yes, the old politician's trick. If facts and reality don't support your financial backers, fake a national security issue to make sure they profit.

Seriously, why are these people not being removed from office and arrested for this?

Zep2000
3
2 months ago

I live in the Netherlands, where wind power makes up 20-40% of electricity, and we have in fact seen the number of birds increasing, and not yet "exhausted the wind".

It is probably all lobbied bullshit.

bagomangopulp
3
2 months ago

Windmills are incredibly dangerous! The more windmills we build, the more the force of the wind spinning the propellers acts like the propeller on an airplane, speeds up the rotation of the earth. If we were to build only 1000 new windmills per month, within 25 years, the earth would be spinning at twice its current rate. The increase in air resistance will begin to heat up the atmosphere, far outpacing current global warming. At that rate, we could end all life on earth in less than 500 years.

Stop sleeping sheeple! Don't be duped by #BigWindmill Educate yourself!

NotAtHome1
3
2 months ago

Jackasses. Energy independence vastly improves our national security.

Tiredofthebs1
3
2 months ago

How does everyone not see that the Republican party has gone completely over to corporate?

They are no longer representing the people at all. They could care less what the people want or need.

dangit1590
3
2 months ago

How can you Ban Wind Power if you are for less Regulations? I thought the whole deal with the republicans is that they don't want regulations for companies and for people? wut?

9s8UTkpPPxNZq1cr
3
2 months ago

No reason is ever given for why wind farms would pose a national security risk. I read the whole article.

/r/savedyouaclick

Bluerain12ya
3
2 months ago

National Security risk

How retarded does one need to be to believe that?

‘Murica at its finest.

improvisedHAT
2
2 months ago

People in the Hamptons, and other wealthy areas have been trying to force the issue of "no wind farms on our coast", this is just there natural progression to getting their way. O and alot of them make there money from oil and current energy systems.

Fartblaster5000
2
2 months ago

As a born and raised Houstonian who doesn't really see themselves ever leaving their hometown, this is mind blowing to me. I'm largely biased, but I like to say Houston is a leader in the energy industry, but if we resist what is coming instead of embracing and try to continue being a leader by leading the way into new types of energy, we are really shooting ourselves in the foot. I know the article is really pertaining to all of America but these are the things I think about.

DrBix
1
2 months ago

Could someone please come up with a good logo for "Wind Cancer Survivor?" or "Windmill Cancer Survivor?" I want one for my car.

Cephelopodia
2
2 months ago

Wow. It might almost be as dangerous as relying on oil from the world's least stable regions to power or entire grid.

sticks14
2
2 months ago

Pretty interesting. Seems the red states are the ones especially capable of producing and locally benefiting from renewable energy, which may be reflected in public opinion. The one thing they like for sure, even more than Jesus, is money, so it might be an interesting battle between vested interests and the prospect of others benefiting. It would be enjoyable watching them turn those mouths against one another and even having a newfound appreciation of climate science. The article on the whole appears encouraging. Those hypocrites are annoying though. If Trump was a Democrat they'd probably sleep with the pillows under their guns. Moral decline, bad example for their kids, Russia and all.

ecorbett79
2
2 months ago

NH built a nuclear power plant on the fucking beach but turbines within 100 miles are a national security threat?

way2lazy2care
2
2 months ago

What's up with this headline? We go from, "several states," to a specific unnamed state in the matter of one sentence.

ddk4x5
2
2 months ago

You know what poses a national security risk? Burning fossil fuels.

InnerKookaburra
2
2 months ago

It's almost like someone has a financial interest in NOT doing the right thing...and they were able to convince legislators to go along with it.

No idea how. I'm sure it's all just a misunderstanding.

Jlx_27
2
2 months ago

Fossil fuel multinationals hate progress, it's been done before.

Arclight71
2
2 months ago

Wow. The hubris on this thread. First, I do agree that wind farms aren't a national security risk. Second, lobbyists are arguing for competing interests. That's where it stops. These things being true don't validate your narrative, but you're all convinced they do.

Solar and wind are cool and renewable, but they don't produce as much as coal or gas. They can't and won't. They're subject to localization, climate, and are still limited by battery storage capacity. They're not widespread enough, nor can they be to really affect climate change.

A better bet is nuclear energy. We have the knowledge base now, have witnessed enough accidents to know better, and have a whole continent to place them in.

This either/or mentality is annoying. Why do people allow others to set the boundaries of positions and select all the options for them? It's troubling.

itsagoodtime4coffee
2
2 months ago

When do we get tired of being so fucking stupid ? #alreadytired

lasthopel
2
2 months ago

When you pay someone enough they will spout any stupid shit to do what you want.

Acejanos
2
2 months ago

Need to take back control from these companies and lobbyists. Pass some laws and start throwing real criminals in jail

ghostinthetoast
2
2 months ago

Just out of curiosity - which political party is attempting to pass these anti-wind bills? Any guesses?

Kalishnikoff
2
2 months ago

Perhaps someone should name the deaths of the men, women, and children that die every year or suffer illness from the coal plants after the politicians that sign these bills.

Wazujimoip
2
2 months ago

Just more proof we live in a disguised oligarchy, where the people in power want money and don’t give a damn about us or our children.

naakedbushman
2
2 months ago

This article jumps around one topic they’re clearly trying to avoid to be more partisan. If wind turbines are improperly placed, they can and will disrupt military radar. That doesn’t constitute a state-wide ban, especially considering the DOD can halt any project that weakens national security.

Some other things these turbines can do is disrupt OTATV signals, and offshore wind farms can send vibration frequencies into the water disorienting whales and other sonar-based water animals that can lead to them being beached

With all that being said, this legislation is still way over the top

Edit: also look at the comment thread that u/jazzspasm posted. He makes a few points that I didn’t think about

Notwerk
2
2 months ago

A fine example of the Republican commitment to free-market policy, folks.

TrashCastle
2
2 months ago

There is a nuclear reactor pretty much on the beach outside of San Diego, but the wind farm is a risk? Someone has an agenda.

Kbdiggity
2
2 months ago

Of course it's the fucking Republicans in North Carolina, who only hold power through gerrymandering, that are pulling this bullshit.

I hate that my home state has such terrible gerrymandering.

HillBillyBobBill
2
2 months ago

And the earthquake from fracking are all fine and dandy!

Deviate_Lulz
2
2 months ago

You know what else poses a risk to national security? GLOBAL WARMING!

CalebRaw
1
2 months ago

Here, take this solution to wasteful, nonrenewable, expensive energy

ThE sOuNd CaUsEs CaNcEr!!!

AlbertVonMagnus
1
2 months ago

Hmm, what do wind energy and nuclear fission have in common?

gotham77
1
2 months ago

Fucking ALEC.

State lawmakers are passing bills they haven’t even read.

doctorbranius
1
2 months ago

Knew a guy from a wealthy area outside the city, him and some rich buddies tried to make an argument that the vibration from windmills was messing with the worms. I'm pretty sure it's because the wind mills we seen as an I sore, maybe affected their property value.

Civ6Ever
1
2 months ago

This is just Quixotic.

Comment is short and low effort, so this should keep it from being deleted by the automod...

MaximumGamer1
1
2 months ago

If you believe that wind turbines cause cancer, or that wind turbines are a national security risk in any capacity, you are not only a hack, but delusional to the extreme. You are holding this country back and putting the world climate at risk if you don't believe in science, or believe that political pundits are more qualified in the area of science than actual scientists with PhDs.

Devan826
1
2 months ago

This is crazy to even consider, don’t they know the wind causes cancer these days /s

doriangray42
1
2 months ago

It doesn't say anywhere in the article how it's a national security issue...

I know these are trumped up charges (pun intended...) but still I'd like to know how they are spelled out...

Devan826
1
2 months ago

The auto industry was basically started off a lie and big corporations, in fact they paid most news paper to slander people who walked on the streets (this was a common practice at the time since there weren’t as many cars). They coined the term Jay Walkers to make them feel shame in their community and give up the roads to the cars. Had it not been for cars everything would be developed closer and things would have a much more community feel to them

SirDigbyChknCaesar
1
2 months ago

Or, you know, we could just build them all over the place so there isn't just one small area that can be taken out.

Fogandgulls
1
2 months ago

My guess is that large wind turbine sites can cause radar blind spots owing to the fact that the radar returns from the sites are filtered from the radar - that’s why airports are heavily consulted about location of wind turbines within a certain distance of their radars. Or something like that.

ohbenito
1
2 months ago

looking down at the map of proposed wind farm sites, he stands up and exclaims, "hell those are all on or near the coast. what if we are attacked and they can tell where the coast is because of the windmills? that wont do."

Fielding_Pierce
1
2 months ago

It's a shame those states are prohibited towards winding up bills.

millstech
1
2 months ago

Can someone explain to me what exactly these maps the bill mentions entail? The article doesn't go into detail about this (literally mentions "maps" once) and it doesn't give any sources. What do these DOT maps show? Why would this be considered grounds for denying wind turbines if the military hasn't used their veto power to prevent them being built in the first place?

MistyRegions
1
2 months ago

So, let's have a rational conversation about this. People invested in fossil fuels are weaponizing a DOD very good reason to not put power production on coasts.

The DOD isnt wrong, it is a national security risk to put things like active power plants withing sub range, what's wrong is the Republicans using it to stop progression on the use of renewables.

Luxomni
1
2 months ago

Can't burn fossil fuels; can't dam rivers; now you can't harvest wind...

Do you ever get the feeling that the real goal is to deprive us of ALL energy?

Beer_conquers_all
1
2 months ago

We should get mad about this. Those politicians are putting all future generations in danger for profit. Not even a lot of it, because wind and solar energy has proven to be more efficient.

Remember which politicians actually oppose this. And vote accordingly.

trustmeep
1
2 months ago

Ah yes, the dreaded aerial assault from [Uhh...I don't even know what country to insert here...Paraguay? Sure, let's say Paraguay.] along the Texas coast.

WazWaz
1
2 months ago

These people are literally traitors to humanity and human civilization.

larrycorser
1
2 months ago

Hahahahaha. Idiots. Good luck when the coal runs out and you can’t see the sky any more.

DrColdReality
1
2 months ago

I hear they cause ear cancer. Bigly.

This is what happens when you put a spoiled, dimwitted, vindictive toddler in charge of the country. He's still butt-hurt because the Scots put up windmills within sight of one of his precious fucking golf courses.

DrColdReality
1
2 months ago

I hear they cause ear cancer. Bigly.

This is what happens when you put a spoiled, dimwitted, vindictive toddler in charge of the country. He's still butt-hurt because the Scots put up a wind farm within sight of one of his precious fucking golf courses.

chrischm
1
2 months ago

What are you people going to do when oil runs out? We’re all super fucked so these pieces of shit who run the country can make an extra $5,000.

We are too docile. We need to yell and scream

Teju_Jagua_Epsilon
1
2 months ago

oil and gas is terrified. for them to be making such a preposterous legal argument is a sign of their desperation at future demand. a better world would involve bleeding their wealth as they have bled the country.

Handle_Fishsticks
1
2 months ago

Ah yes the lobbyists for the competitors having a say in politics. Again we play the game of who has more money. I hope no one reads that article and actually think it's a national security threat. It literally says that one of the proponents was the head guy at Duke energy i.e someone who favors coal over wind because well that's what he did. I implore everyone to read up on the people supporting the proposal and learn who's bed they are getting into.

Jackofdemons
1
2 months ago

How on Earth are windmills a national security risk?

Solid_Jack
1
2 months ago

Easy. Also make them missle silos. Boom! National security INCREASES.

DaddyGamerYT
1
2 months ago

No way, put those bad boys on the coast and then if we ever get invaded just turn them on and blow them back home!

remijdio
1
2 months ago

America is the greatest country in the world though. 😃😁😅😅😅😑😶

ITIIiiIiiIiTTIIITiIi
1
2 months ago

The only dangers of wind turbines is that they kill lots of birds. Some protected species might cause areas to be off limits for wind energy if people care more about endangered birds than clean energy.

ItsoktosayJiff
1
2 months ago

While we're making idiotic arguments, here's one:

Coal power plants are a national security risk because the big plume of smoke makes them easy to target and bomb!

flyingalbatross1
1
2 months ago

But muh small government. And muh freedom from government interference in business.

Fantasy_masterMC
1
2 months ago

Are you sure you didn't mean to post this in /r/nottheonion ? How the hell are these a security risk? They actually make for more difficult targets than centralized power plants.

Drak_is_Right
1
2 months ago

Will be amusing if military bases order large scale wind farms constructed on or near them as power sources that are decentralized in their generation capacity compared to power plants (and thus harder to take down in a military strike).

leftajar
1
2 months ago

If the people in those states genuinely want to over-pay for electricity, go for it. They're only shooting themselves in the foot.

standinaround
1
2 months ago

Haha.. Friggin hilarious.. And all thats gonna happen to oppose it all, is people just gonna whine online.. Wont do anything meaningful though.

Jedi_Ninja
1
2 months ago

After reading the article I still have no idea how a windmill farm could possibly be a national security threat.

khast
2
2 months ago

What they need to do, sneak some wording into the bill that includes oil and pipelines... If passed, see how quickly it gets repealed.

Organic_Toast
1
2 months ago

God people are stupid to fall for blatant attacks on renewable energy. If there was an informed citizenry big business and the party that supports them would be brought to their knees.

l3mmyCaution
1
2 months ago

Ha! I first read this headline as “Anti-wind” as if people are trying to outlaw wind. Which makes about as much sense as trying to outlaw wind farms and further US dependency on non-renewable energy sources, that serve few other than the rich oil oligarchs

soulassssns
1
2 months ago

"helping offset greenhouse gas emissions"

You know what truly offsets green house emissions? Nuclear power.

I_I_I_I_
1
2 months ago

Think of the terrorist flotillas that will use wind farms as a jumping off point to take over the United States.

/s

faithle55
1
2 months ago

A national security risk? How?

Masking the sounds of invading Chinese helicopters?

kurisu7885
1
2 months ago

I can only imagine the people who are supporting this chanting "Not In My Back Yard!"

sxule
1
2 months ago

Reminds me of when a buddy of mine told me all his neighbors were angry about the new solar farm in the area because it was "going to steal sunlight from the crops." More people than brain cells in that town apparently.

jfienberg
1
2 months ago

Jesus fucking Christ.

It’s a threat to national security!....Good thing we have the worlds best military to defend our coasts

wattatam
1
2 months ago

"John Droz, a noted anti-wind activist who has marketed himself as a scientist"

Love that phrasing!