RIP Notre Dame Cathedral.
47507 upvotes
1357 comments
GeorgieWashington
4 days ago
RIP Notre Dame Cathedral.
elijha
2473
4 days ago

It didn't survive that stuff unscathed. It's been badly damaged and rebuilt in the past too.

mandy009
1005
4 days ago

In fact the spire itself had fallen apart by the 18th century and rebuilt in the 19th century.

AdmiralThrawnProtege
480
4 days ago

So it'll be rebuilt in the 22nd century?

UltraLord_Sheen
422
4 days ago

Nah dawg. We got cranes. Heights? Psh. Nothing but a peanut

GoBuffaloes
171
4 days ago

Tell that to the Sagrada Familia

labratcat
46
4 days ago

My first thought, as well. I've always been astonished that modern technology can't speed it along.

Basilisc
14
4 days ago

What's the story there? I tried to look it up but couldn't find much

13ThatGuy
83
4 days ago

A minor basilica in Barcelona that is known for two main things:

  1. Antoni Gaudí was the architect behind it; and
  2. It’s under construction with a completion date that moves like Jagger.
Basilisc
13
4 days ago

Thanks, I found the building when I looked it up but not that it was never finished. At least it'll probably be done soon (relatively anyway)!

Mortomes
36
4 days ago

soon

Valve wants a word

Aberfrog
7
4 days ago

Cathedrals are never done - once it’s “finished” you start renovating , restoring, repairing.

I live in Vienna - and i think there were maybe 1 or 2 years in which st Stephen didn’t have some sort of scaffold on or around it

RagdollPhysEd
2
4 days ago

Oddly enough jagger will outlive it

DepositsandCredits
17
4 days ago

Fun fact- my native Barcelona friend said it has taken so long because Spain will only build on it when it had the funds- and they had not put any debt into it- meaning that it has taken 100 years to build chunks of it when they get the funding for it

layoffthecrack
15
4 days ago

It’s a famous cathedral designed by Gaudí that was never finished due to his death. They’ve been trying to finish it for the past century; hopefully it will be complete in seven years—at least, that’s the projected completion date.

mhanrahan
17
4 days ago

that's actually not a bad estimate. I visited Sagrada Familia in 1982, 37 years ago, and the signs said that the estimated completion date was in 50 years.

Basilisc
10
4 days ago

That's kinda soon, I mean at least relatively right?

I think it's neat af that someone designed a building that's taking well over 100 years to get built!

layoffthecrack
7
4 days ago

Yeah, for sure. Gaudí has super intricate, beautiful, complex, and original architecture that’s so amazing to be in the presence of. Went to see it on a trip to Spain two weeks ago, along with Park Güell, and it definitely was the highlight of my week

psychonator
2
4 days ago

Kinda like fixing potholes in Michigan.

GeneralJesus
2
4 days ago

Most cathedrals take that long or longer. I remember going to a cathedral in DC in the eighth grade that (at the time) boasted the world's fastest completion time for a cathedral - only 88 years!

[deleted]
16
4 days ago

[deleted]

gualdhar
70
4 days ago

Wouldn't go that far. It's such an important symbol that whoever will be in charge of rebuilding is going to be very careful with the process.

Mysta02
42
4 days ago

You mean super careful like the construction company in charge of the renovations that caused today's fire?

gualdhar
14
4 days ago

If it was a construction accident, that company probably won't get work again.

And I was talking more about bidding, drafting, approvals, all the stuff that goes into the renovations before a single board is laid down.

Mysta02
10
4 days ago

I'm just joking because I'd assume any company would be careful when renovating an 800 year old building, not just the company fixing the first company's fuck up :-)

DebentureThyme
2
4 days ago

No, like "Not struggling for funding like the previous efforts". Now it's going to get every penny it ever needed. And they can take up the entire interior if need be with restoration efforts, with it closed to the public the entire time (simply not an option by previous needs). The best in the world will fight for the contract with the press and prestige they'll get from it.

The previous restoration was going to take ten years and cost 69 million Euros - much of that time and cost due to having to work around a functional museum that hosted 30,000 to 50,000 visitors per day. And that 60 million Euro budget was only 2/3rds funded (by the French government), with the remaining 20 million Euros still not yet found funding sources entirely.

Those previous efforts weren't even targeting hugely needed areas of renovation, focusing on getting the most important things done that they could manage to fund.

Now it'll get the best in the world, with hundreds of millions if not into a billion or more Euros. This is all of a sudden extremely important to fund, whereas it was previously the close on thousand years old structure known for surviving and thus not prioritized no matter how many engineers cried at the top of their lungs.

Basically, this is like climate change. All the warnings have been screamed from the rafters, all the proof is there, and yet we still delay all over and many doubt the necessity. The big difference is that no amount of funds is going to fix that after the fact.

ThatDamnCanadianGuy
2
4 days ago

Do you know something we don't? No news source has said anything about construction causing a fire.....

badmartialarts
2
4 days ago

They already burned it down once, what's the odds of that happening again?

_Blazebot420_
37
4 days ago

The renovations weren't even scheduled to be done until 2022 tho. Triple time, guys!

DebentureThyme
2
4 days ago

It's closed to the public now vs working on a building that was an active museum with with 30,000-50,000 visitors a day. They can scaffold the fuck out of the inside and build upwards a lot faster and more efficiently, once the plans are in place.

The detail work, however, will take insane amounts of time.

jorgomli
1
4 days ago

Backup crew to the rescue!

lps2
1
4 days ago

Did you see how fast I-85 bridge got rebuilt? Throw enough cash at a problem and shit can get done quick

dragonpjb
1
4 days ago

Rebuilding is actually faster and easier than renovation.

ruckdiz
1
4 days ago

La Sagrada Familia was designed in the pre-crane era, and is still to this date not finished. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes at least a decade before it is back to yesterday's glory.

MobiusF117
2
4 days ago

Yeah, but at this point "not being finished" has kind of become a selling point for it, so they arent really in a rush.

Its also an intentional stupidly complex structure.

Matthiass
1
4 days ago

lol

Rpolifucks
2
4 days ago

YEAH BUDDY! LIGHTWEIGHT!

n1tsuj3
2
4 days ago

YEAA BUDDY... LIGHT WEIGHT BABY

Fashonkadonk
2
4 days ago

LIGHT WEIGHTTT!

yeahhtruee
2
4 days ago

Light weight.

akiba305
1
4 days ago

Nuthin a crane thang

Not_Einstein
1
4 days ago

why are you rebuilding a peanut?

Greenschist_Facies
5
4 days ago

Most of the structure is still there. It's mainly the roof that burned up. I'm gonna guess it'll be 20 years until it's fully repaired.

courself
2
4 days ago

Well that and all the paintings that need to be redone on the walls and fine wooden trimmings that adorn the interior.

Handmade art isn't cheap.

Woodyville06
2
4 days ago

With French labor that’s a little optimistic.

elbenji
5
4 days ago

Exactly. The only reason it wasnt demolished was because victor hugo wrote a book about it

bassgoonist
3
4 days ago

I think it was torn down before it completely fell apart. And the effort to rebuild was inspired in part by the hunchback of notre dame.

InsertEvilLaugh
160
4 days ago

I sure hope it can be rebuilt but it's going to take a lot, I don't think it's ever been damaged to anywhere near this extent.

door_of_doom
241
4 days ago

THis specific cathedral, no, but many, many other cathedrals have had similar or worse damage and have been rebuilt.

Remember that only the roof burns down, the rest of it is made of stone.

ediblesprysky
174
4 days ago

An expert they had on NPR earlier said the kind of stone they used can lose structural integrity at high temperatures too. So. That’s fun.

Also all the art...

screaming-succotash
180
4 days ago

Good news!! I read that they retrieved the art and artefacts!

[deleted]
137
4 days ago

[deleted]

tad8000
50
4 days ago

You mean you didn't hear it in the voice of James May and get excited about the new Dacia Sandero?

a_pirate_life
8
4 days ago

Doctor Slow Himself

LadyCoru
5
4 days ago

Now I need to turn on some classic Top Gear.

flecom
2
4 days ago

Dacia Sandero?

I don't know why but now I really want one, but I don't have a clue who Dacia is or what a Sandero is besides a small car they tend to destroy on top gear...

CenturionElite
12
4 days ago

To shreds you say?

Schuano
4
4 days ago

And how's the wife?

CenturionElite
3
4 days ago

To shreds you say?

MufinMcFlufin
55
4 days ago

Supposedly the art, artifacts, and relics were taken out of the cathedral while they were working on renovations to the spire. Unfortunately, it's currently believed that those renovations may have been the cause of the fire.

MrMumble
15
4 days ago

Are you saying that they burnt it down on purpose for the insurance money?

marcus27
49
4 days ago

There's always money in the cathedral

Dman9494
20
4 days ago

The general conspiracy theory that I've seen in Youtube comment sections is that the cathedral was burned down on purpose because Macron loves Muslims. So take that how you will.

welpfuckit
17
4 days ago

i always knew Muslims loved macaroons

Fractoman
3
4 days ago

Now I'm definitely one to call Macron Islamophilic but even I'll admit that's a bit of a stretch.

Dman9494
1
4 days ago

Nothing wrong with loving Muslims.

Hoisttheflagofstars
15
4 days ago

That one guy who didn't unplug that thing tho....

hymntastic
18
4 days ago

He's just praying it's totally gone and they can't find it

TheRandomNPC
8
4 days ago

I really hope that is true. Historic building have taken damage like this and been repaired but the art would never come back.

StayGoldenBronyBoy
3
4 days ago

Link?

ediblesprysky
26
4 days ago

Yes, that’s awesome! But there’s still stained glass and sculpture, gargoyles, and the religious artefacts housed in the spire itself—apparently it contained a piece of what was claimed to be Christ’s crown of thorns.

Good luck, though, even if the renovation does turn out to be what caused it.

liraelskye
10
4 days ago

I saw in another thread that the gargoyles were taken down four days ago and put in storage. Fingers crossed that this is true.

see_hag
8
4 days ago

That was not in the spire. And yes, they got that out.

pnasmaster
2
4 days ago

That stained glass though. Is it safe? That intricate work. Could it ever be redone

greymalken
2
4 days ago

How can fire unmake stone?

bailtail
1
4 days ago

And it was being repaired due to structural concerns in the first place.

NikkoE82
23
4 days ago

Can the stone’s structural integrity be compromised by heat, though?

InsertEvilLaugh
28
4 days ago

Yes, depending on the stone and how long it was subjected to heat, could produce stress fractures in the stone.

keiyakins
20
4 days ago

Fortunately this is one of the best-documented buildings in the world, we could recreate almost everything even if all the stone suddenly evaporated.

pistoncivic
14
4 days ago

We should recreate the Colosseum already. Use it for Serie A games.

laetus
3
4 days ago

What games would it even be used for? A football field wouldn't fit in it.

Crotalidoc
9
4 days ago

Gladiatorial death matches?

thesoxpride11
2
4 days ago

Yea, but then it has kind of a "Ship of Theseus" feel to it

keiyakins
2
4 days ago

Doesn't it already? I mean, it's been heavily damaged and significantly rebuilt several times.

eatmynasty
3
4 days ago

I mean if fire can compromise steel, it can compromise stone... unless....

gynoceros
77
4 days ago

If only Notre Dame were part of a larger organization with untold riches...

Mobidad
47
4 days ago

You mean the football team? I don't think they'll share their money.

mastersw999
12
4 days ago

Rumor has it they are still asking Alumni for more money just to get by.

mitsuk0
15
4 days ago

i'm sure that organization would be taxed heavily for those riches

flakemasterflake
2
4 days ago

It belongs to the French government. In case you were thinking of some other org. with untold riches

NRMusicProject
1
4 days ago

We can rebuild it. We have the technology. But don't want to spend a lot of money.

ac3boy
1
4 days ago

When I am feeling down that is my goto clip.

gorthan1984
31
4 days ago

Well... It got burned down during the French Revolution and stayed like that for many years, eventually becoming used by the lower income people of Paris for market or even housing. Then there was an effort in the 1800s for a restoration, that's why a lot of it was built in those years like the spire destroyed yesterday evening.

And, yes, if you're wondering: Hugo wrote Notre Dame de Paris to raise awareness to the decay and neglect of the cathedral.

thegrumpymechanic
6
4 days ago
coolmandan03
6
4 days ago

It was pretty damaged in the french revolution - the bells we're melted for cannons and the roof used to make bullets. Birds flew in and out for years and it was de-christian. Most of what's there (roof, spire, even the famous gargoyles) are from the 1850s.

garrencurry
1
4 days ago
InsertEvilLaugh
2
4 days ago

That is quite a relief, hopefully the structure is still sound.

sfgeek
6
4 days ago

My Uncle runs a firm in Philadelphia that restores historic landmarks, and they are buildings younger than the time it took to build Notre Dame. They use old techniques instead of power tools often on wood. It takes them a vast amount of time to do a restoration.

My guess is some idiot was welding in the attic, and didn’t protect the 800 year old oak nearby.

That firm is basically done. They may even see jail time.

888mainfestnow
2
4 days ago

Every detail has been very well doccumented. It will be rebuilt to as close of specifications as possible. Nothing will be noticeable to the average pesron.

Yes it will take time but it will be almost exactly as it stood before within due time.

bhullj11
1236
4 days ago

The hotel Adlon in Berlin survived all of WW2 including the bombings and artillery only to be burned down accidentally by drunken red army soldiers celebrating their victory

arvidsbror
470
4 days ago

“Accidentally”

[deleted]
447
4 days ago

[removed]

gettheguillotine
270
4 days ago

hey now, not every child, just the hot ones

Skyhawk6600
116
4 days ago
handlit33
92
4 days ago

ಠ_ಠ

Wolfcolaholic
70
4 days ago

The post started about a Catholic church are you surprised raping children clocks in at the 4th comment in?

dalenacio
17
4 days ago

Maybe I didn't see "clocks" the first time I read through. Maybe I had to do a double take. Maybe a triple take.

Maybe I need help.

fjcjcdjdjvdeekcxh
1
4 days ago

You do need help. You can't rape children cocks. Just children's cocks.

chaun2
1
4 days ago

So... Rooster-fucking is ok, but only if a youngling's possession/companion?

ImThatGuyToday
2
4 days ago

Today's life lessons are getting so... odd, or is that an old life lesson? I can't keep up with today, or the past, I give up.

og_vlodik
3
4 days ago

Not that much

cokezero556
2
4 days ago

I was appalled it said children when they should have typed boys. Girls have no place in the catholic church.

TheHobbyist94
18
4 days ago

FBI KGB OPEN UP

TheSemaj
16
4 days ago

Jesus H. Fuck.

PathToExile
10
4 days ago

Did you know that Jesus' middle name is Hoobastank?

Ichbins33594
1
4 days ago

It’s Horatio, actually.

coinoperatedboi
2
4 days ago

A fellow of infinite jest

SirSpooderman47
15
4 days ago
Wolfcolaholic
7
4 days ago

Hot as in attractive, or temperature?

Shitty_poop_stain
14
4 days ago

Yes

og_vlodik
1
4 days ago
hgl1998
1
4 days ago

The red army did use flamethrower

mike4dictator
5
4 days ago

Ah, that would explain why your mother never showed signs of childhood trauma.

octavio2895
3
4 days ago

judging by the fire most of those kids were hot ones anyways.

anonymous_potato
3
4 days ago

I thought we only started using napalm during the Korean war...

breakone9r
3
4 days ago

True, but don't forget the firebombing of Dresden....

dbx99
2
4 days ago

We made some glowing japanese children

Cbombo87
2
4 days ago
thatbluegti
1
4 days ago

Yes officer this post right here

WilliamBott
2
4 days ago

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

pxBlue
2
4 days ago

I have questions, but I dont want to hear the answers

TERRAOperative
2
4 days ago

Was that what the fire was for?

Zidane3838
2
4 days ago

Stupid sexy kids

hymntastic
2
4 days ago

This comment right here officer

SteelTalons310
1
4 days ago

and theres still memorials and monuments up for red army soldiers, no memorials or monuments for all the women and children that were raped.

[deleted]
13
4 days ago

[removed]

spad3x
6
4 days ago

STOP RIGHT THERE! YOU ARE BEING LIBERATED

YT-Deliveries
3
4 days ago
snowballtlwcb
6
4 days ago
raskolnik0v
5
4 days ago

So many accidents happened at that time, for example the accidental invasion of the USSR and the deaths of millions of civilians at the hands of the invading Germans. Clumsy times I suppose.

GsuxD
2
4 days ago

Who knew trying to genocide a population and putting them through literal hell on earth makes em a little bloodthirsty and unhinged

charliemajor
6
4 days ago

сука блять Comrade Molotov, no more making drinks for you!

LordSwedish
3
4 days ago

I mean, they may have just wanted to start a fire and didn't mean to burn down the whole building. That's an accident...technically.

alikazaam
2
4 days ago

"Hey guys we missed one"

TheSwain
7
4 days ago

Well what do you expect them to do? Burn down one of the demolished ones?

bhullj11
2
4 days ago

There's not much you can really expect from a group of people who thinks it's acceptable to rape every female they find and then expect to be called heroes for it.

BolognaPwny
1195
4 days ago

I can't imagine a sprinkler system being installed in the cathedral especially with its age, fortunately enough neither can anyone else now.

ArrowRobber
399
4 days ago

Wouldn't this prompt most old historic churches to have proper fire supression retrofitted & HIDDEN in the structure?

It would be a shame if the Cologne Cathedral had a similar fate.

BizzyM
680
4 days ago

It would be a shame if the Cologne Cathedral had a similar fate.

Easy, now. We can work something out, ok?

mauginra
182
4 days ago

Sure thing, you just have to make your fire protection payments, and there won't be any incedents, see?

jskoker
82
4 days ago

I’m pretty sure Martin Luther had a problem with paying to prevent fire within the church in 1517.

-viIIain-
123
4 days ago

Nailed it

macthefire
33
4 days ago

I bet you feel really proud of yourself right now.

-viIIain-
36
4 days ago

Fun isn't something one considers when balancing the church, but this does put 95 theses on my door

kingeryck
20
4 days ago

I got 95 theses but a bitch aint one

boney_hoo_hoo
10
4 days ago

Have my up- grievance

Impeesa_
9
4 days ago

Now you're just being indulgent.

condescendingpats
1
4 days ago

Except for all that feces behind the nail, yeah.

MrsDoctorSea
3
4 days ago

Someone give this person gold. The villain wins.....THIS time.

steve_o_mac
3
4 days ago

Bravo. If there was a 'you win' comment, that was it.

cATSup24
10
4 days ago

That's bullshit. This whole thing is bullshit. Here's 95 reasons why.

thom_spork
2
4 days ago

That's a nice cathedral you have there...

Mopeytowel
3
4 days ago

Thank you for sharing your perspective!

Bird_nostrils
3
4 days ago

My takeaway from your comment is “it’s costly and installing it might damage the building because we don’t want to drill holes in stone walls or add new screws to wooden beams.”

I understand the preservationist impulse there, but honestly, I don’t think you’ll find anyone who wouldn’t trade those holes and screws in order to avoid a conflagration like we just witnessed. A network of pipes and sprinklers running through the roof beams above the vault seems like such an obvious cost-benefit no-brainer to me. Visitors wouldn’t even see it.

In a way, it reminds me of when the US National Archives’ military records complex went up in flames a couple of decades ago. They purposefully didn’t install a sprinkler system in an archive filled with old paper because they thought they could put a fire out quickly and didn’t want to risk water-damage to the documents. They didn’t consider that if a fire gets too large, then water damage is a hell of a lot easier to deal with than ashes. As a result, records for millions of servicemen (including my grandfather) are irretrievably lost. And archives like that all have fire suppression systems now.

With hindsight, sometimes the correct risk/reward calculus becomes blindingly obvious.

Towhitherward
2
4 days ago

I don't completely disagree that it certainly feels very wrong to not want to do whatever we can for these important places. I just wanted to reiterate and maybe better communicate the challenges. It's not entirely just not some new screw holes here and there. When looking at core systems like plumbing and trying to retrofit in historic buildings, you have to consider how to fit within the building. This isn't just as far as attaching it to what's existing. This would also involve dismantling the structure in a large capacity, removing the floor or walls to add the plumbing under neither it, alongside drilling extensive holes to fit that plumbing through a historic floor joist, which you must consider if you are compromising the structural integrity that's already there.

We've truly come a long way in our building technology and how we incorporate core and mechanical systems within the building shell. The way that buildings are constructed today is meticulous in considering the layers by which each of these trades comes in after the other. For example, we have to frame the walls, then we can start the plumbing, then we can do the electrical, then we can apply the drywall/paint, then the millwork over that. It wouldn't be possible to do these out of that order because of how we've just come put these parts and pieces together. This is with modern buildings that account these things when you look at historic structures, they had no concept of needing specific room or space to allow for plumbing to drain at a certain angle. So the floors might be much thinner than what applying plumbing would allow in modern buildings. I think a good example many may encounter is what we refer to as ADA or Accessible design for those in wheelchairs. This wasn't a standard until the 1970s, so old buildings didn't often have ramps or hallways were very thin and cramped. This prevented those in wheelchairs from even being apart of the space. Now to fix this, we can't simply move walls to provide a 30-60" walkway clearance because it may be structurally built for that wall to exist where it is and to move it would not only change the history of this building and accounting for that wall but it would impact the size and outline of other rooms and areas, and the many layers of what that building consists of within its walls.

I have been trying to think of a good example to really demonstrate the evolution of buildings and just how much they have changed since we introduced so many precautions and mechanical elements to them. I think the best I can come up with this morning is looking at this image of a brick wall and how it differs over time. Historically, brick walls were a lot thicker and there structure came from layering the bricks in such a manner to make walls thicker and more stable. Today though, brick is more often adhered to the surface of existing framework, it's cheaper and allows us to better insulate the home and finish the interior walls with drywall. It would be within that framing that all our modern core systems would exist. I hope it helps illustrate in thinking just how different these buildings can be over time.

ArrowRobber
1
4 days ago

I would expect some 'replace the battery once a year, it will spray fire dampening foam everywhere if a fire is detected' devices would be ideal.

The nice thing about some of these old churches and cathedrals is frankly they arn't build with many flammable materials.

irishjihad
7
4 days ago

Except that those systems can also leak, and break. The attic spaces of these cathedrals are usually not heated and can easily reach freezing temperatures, so a wet sprinkler system is out. A dry sprinkler system is also possible, but is difficult for such large spaces where it will take more time for the lines to fill, meaning the fire can already be getting out of control. There are a LOT of technical, practical, conservation, and risk considerations to consider. The attic space was huge, and not easily protected even by modern systems.

psykikduk
1
4 days ago

Structurally it's mostly stone. The tricky bit is all the furnishings inside tended to be wood.

Srabai
1
4 days ago

I enjoyed reading your insights

Colonelfudgenustard
1
4 days ago

Time for a firefighting robot to be hanging around with his fire extinguisher or whatever.

W00DERS0N
37
4 days ago

Germany had a LOT of churches get torched by the 8th air force. It can be rebuilt.

umbraviscus
22
4 days ago

And Castles. I wouldn't be surprised if, after all is said and done, they refurbish Notre Dame into an updated tourist venture. My mother got married in the ruins of Heidelberg Castle and it was incredibly cool. Heidelberg castle burnt down similarly to Notre Dame and annually they have a weird event where they have fake fire and screaming coming from the castle, so to onlookers in the street it appears that the castle is burning. I'm not sure the purpose of the event because I was young when I got to experience it and it seemed awfully gothic to me.

LachsFilet
6
4 days ago

I live here and don't even know when they do that

umbraviscus
3
4 days ago

I think it's possible it's not annual. I for sure remember it being a thing at least 1 time in the last 20 years.

I miss Heidelberg so much. I havent been back there for 10 years now, however I'm planning on visiting this winter to experience haubtstrasser and the Christmas market as an adult. I hope nothing has changed!

LachsFilet
1
4 days ago

The old city hasn't changed much! Hope you have fun. It is planned that the train station area renovations will be done by the end of 2019, so you'll see a futuristic Heidelberg!

DuEbrithiI
1
4 days ago

I think he means Schlossbeleuchtung... Maybe they did something like that at some point instead of just fireworks.

DuEbrithiI
1
4 days ago

Kind of a bad example for rebuilding burnt down landmarks since it was only partially rebuilt... Also to clarify: The castle wasn't burnt down in WW2 - Heidelberg was barely bombed, maybe because it had no industry worth bombing or maybe because the allies always planned on using it as their headquarters, apparently the reason isn't quite clear. The castle was actually destroyed by French soldiers towards the end of the 17th century.

The "weird event" probably refers to the Schlossbeleuchtung ("castle illumination") which is a firework display in reference to the destruction of the castle.

table_it_bot
1
4 days ago
B B B B
B B
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PNWCoug42
12
4 days ago

Wouldn't this prompt most old historic churches to have proper fire supression retrofitted & HIDDEN in the structure

I doubt it. The cost would be insane. It would all be built custom to the historic buildings the churches are in.

MoarGPM
22
4 days ago

Every sprinkler system is custom, but yes, it'd be expensive. I design suppression and alarm systems. Cathedrals are a major pain in the ass.

Hammerhil
6
4 days ago

We're talking about the Roman Catholic Church here. They have the money.

palcatraz
2
4 days ago

The building is not owned by the Catholic Church. It is owned by the state.

PNWCoug42
4
4 days ago

Every sprinkler system is custom

I say custom in reference to this:

HIDDEN in the structure?

To be hidden, I assume it would have to be pieces that are created to fit, and be hidden from eyesight, within the structure itself which means you aren't just installing pipes and heads.

Bird_nostrils
2
4 days ago

Except for a gothic cathedral like this, you can do just that. The timber is all hidden away inside the towers or above the stone vault. The roof is the vulnerable part, and the people down below don’t see it at all. I have to imagine that you could run a network of pipes and sprinklers through the roof beams without taking any special efforts to hide it.

vhalen50
3
4 days ago

Fellow designer here myself. Did 2 1860’s era churches converted into wedding venues. Was not fun or a good challenge. It was an absolute bitch of a design. Especially the attic system and figuring out how anguy is gonna get 85+ feet up in the ceiling when the trusses are spread 4’ OC. They built scaffolding at like 50 feet I believe and my dude stood on a 8’ ladder and used a 12’ piece of ATR with a coupling and another 6’ piece with a Sammy at the end to set the peak line. Insane.

MoarGPM
1
4 days ago

Sheeesh, that's sketchy. I used to be a fitter, so I feel for the guys when a church project comes through. Especially if I can't utilize attic heads. Worst for me was a huge mosque. Giant domes on a dry system are not fun to figure out.

Have you checked out r/firepe ?

ArrowRobber
14
4 days ago

The 'insane' cost isn't as insane as the idea of a national treasure being lost. "Oh no, a 'wasteful' $10 million'" instead of it going to a supermarket arrangement of danishes and sliced fruit for executive meetings, it will go to something stupid like fire supression.

MrBattleRabbit
12
4 days ago

One Dassault Rafale fighter jet costs $74m. I don't know what it would cost to put a fire suppression system in Notre Dame, but it seems like it should be less than that.

onespiker
5
4 days ago

Yea just drilling holes for tubes in a 850 year old monument..

MrBattleRabbit
4
4 days ago

Given the context, are the holes better or worse than the fire risk?

Rogan403
2
4 days ago

Yeah just figuring a few holes is somehow worse than being set on fire.

blh1003
4
4 days ago

You still have to have the 10 million

RangerNS
7
4 days ago

As opposed to going down to the local Home Depot and buying an assemble yourself sprinkler system?

All the systems are custom made. That is what pipe-fitters do

PNWCoug42
3
4 days ago

The dude I was responding to wanted it to be hidden in the structure. To do something like in the Cathedral of Notre Dame isn't as simple as going to Home Depot, buying some fittings and pipe, and installing it. We are talking about having pieces created to look like they belong on the structure so when people look up, they don't see a bunch of fire suppression hardware.

[deleted]
2
4 days ago

[deleted]

IllegalSweatPants
3
4 days ago

It's not really practical. Once one of those roofs is going it's done with or without sprinklers.

_Madison_
7
4 days ago

Well the idea of a sprinkler system is the fire never progresses beyond the 'gets going' part.

IllegalSweatPants
2
4 days ago

Sure. And the ceiling height of that building would significantly complicate sprinkler use. Not to mention the building is full of building materials that arent fire resistant.

I have a degree in fire safety and technology and am also a firefighter. Once that roof was going there isnt a sprinkler system in the world thats putting it out. And many church fires start in the walls or directly on the roof - where sprinkler systems dont even have access to.

There are structure fires often in fully sprinkled buildings. The systems can only put out so much water in so many places. Add super old building with incredibly high ceilings and it's not going to happen. The only sure bet thing to help would be to reroof the entire thing in non combustible material and then seal it in a heat resistant covering. That way the room below has the chance to be cooled before it melts the roof off. Getting that heat out even after hitting it with a lot of water would still be really hard and would obliterate whatever was inside.

The height of the tower is 226 feet according to wikipedia. There arent even master streams that can reach that in the vast majority of fire departments around the world. The spire is amazingly high, forget putting water on it.

The majority of sprinkler systems are geared towards small/mid sized room content fires with low/mid BTU potential.

AllRushMixtape
2
4 days ago

But what if the sprinklers used holy water?

blh1003
3
4 days ago

I don't think you realize how much that would cost

_Madison_
1
4 days ago

Probably less than rebuilding a Cathedral.

blh1003
1
4 days ago

If you don't have the money in the first place none of it makes a difference

condescendingpats
2
4 days ago

You would be amazed how cost prohibitive and actually risky that installation is to the structure.

Also, if the fire were smaller, you would basically have horrific water damage as an overreaction.

Theshadebusiness
1
4 days ago

That a threat?

imlost19
1
4 days ago

yes officer, this comment right here

vhalen50
1
4 days ago

I designed 2 sprinkler systems for 18th century churches that got renovated into wedding venues. Unfortunately most of the code states if there’s no change in occupancy, you can go on without them.

It’s pretty incredible to see something constructed in the 1800s compared to modern construction. Those roof trusses at the peak are like 3’ thick. They are a bitch to design for.

firstduenozzlejob
1
4 days ago

In NYC, most new construction, including abatement, have to have sprinklers. Churches are exempt.

CallMe_Dig_Baddy
1
4 days ago

Honestly to retrofit a place as old as that would be extremely difficult.

make_love_to_potato
1
4 days ago

It would be a shame if the Cologne Cathedral had a similar fate.

That almost sounds like a threat Lol. Are you by any chance in the hidden fire suppression business?

JayHarmon
1
4 days ago

Personally I feel like historic buildings are historic for more than just their appearance. Even if the damage isn't noticeable, it's still damage being done to a historic building. Of course, to most people, fire safety is worth it. I can see why the church may be hesitant, though.

VonGeisler
128
4 days ago

Sprinkler systems are definitely added to buildings like this all the time. Same with electricity and plumbing.

dellett
55
4 days ago

With how important of a tourist attraction and icon Notre Dame is, I would be surprised if there hadn't been some sort of sprinkler system already. It must have just not been enough to put out the fire.

tomanonimos
44
4 days ago

Youd be shocked to how little preventive measures are actually in place

RevWaldo
11
4 days ago

Between this and the National Museum of Brazil burning down, I'd think the people who oversee and fund historical treasures would start insisting on fireproofing and suppression systems, aesthetics and finer preservation details be damned. OK, run the sprinkler pipe through that wall. I don't care how old that fresco is or who painted it, this joint's a damn tinderbox!

timetravelhunter
6
4 days ago

Replace the spiral stairs with elevators

dahjay
8
4 days ago

Sorry, /u/BolognaPwny, we're going to go with a different candidate for the sprinkler system sales executive but we'll notify you if we have any other openings that fit your work experience.

AtlUtdGold
5
4 days ago

Why the fuck not. I’m shocked they didn’t put sprinklers in back in the 20’s or something.

xcrunnerwarza
6
4 days ago

I used to install fire sprinklers and in the U.S. Historic monuments would not be required to install them. And nowadays the plumbing is all in the walls but old structures like that it might have to show to cover most of the cathedral. I'm not sure what the cathedral was made out of but my guess is the only way to make the piping "invisible" would be to paint it.

Nate_TeamBST
2
4 days ago

Holy water is too expensive these days

Dominigo
1
4 days ago

Especially with the nave at 35m tall. That starts to be tough to protect with sprinklers. The side chambers could be protected, but it runs a risk of water damage in addition to the installation and maintainence costs. I could absolutely see people deciding that they don't want sprinklers in the building at all. They probably thought with their current system they could control any expected fire before it got big enough to cause wide spread damage

THyoungC
1
4 days ago

Wouldn’t it be a fire hazard (lol) to not have sprinklers installed in any building nowadays?

ritchie70
112
4 days ago

Agreed. Sounds like the stonework is intact, and they've saved the towers from collapse.

Much of the interior and the spire were built in the 1800's. It'll be rebuilt again.

And I imagine the roof will be rebuilt with a very sophisticated sprinkler system.

Okichah
27
4 days ago

From the news i was following they were worried about the bells. They thought there was a chance of losing the whole thing. If the bells fell the towers couldve gone down with it.

zombiearclight
18
4 days ago

Much of the interior and the spire were built in the 1800's. It'll be rebuilt again.

I thought the section called "the Forest" burned, and that most of the wood was original from the first two phases of building in the 11 and 1200s.

th3onlybrownm4n
1
4 days ago
crowstock
1
4 days ago

Sick soundtrack. Could have been written by r/twrp

senorpoop
86
4 days ago

They already rebuilt the spire once, in the 19th century. I have no doubt they could do it again. It would be a monumental effort, but it's possible.

LeoMarius
51
4 days ago

If anyone can do it, it's the French. They have the money, the skills, the political will, and the soul.

SpaceJackRabbit
15
4 days ago

As a Frenchman, thank you. The money though, not really. Over the past few decades the French state has been struggling to find funds to maintain their historical heritage. They even introduced a lottery recently to collect funds (which may have been mismanaged, but that's another story). A non-profit created controversy recently too when they announced plans to target American donors for Notre-Dame-de-Paris' renovation costs.

The situation is reaching critical proportions for some monuments.

It's especially difficult since the French state owns all those churches and cathedrals, not the Vatican. There is also the fact that there isn't a culture of charity-giving in France like there is in the U.S., in great part because the state provides a social safety net and usually comes through for this type of program.

So, unfortunately the money is getting very, very tight. So Pinault's offer of 100M euros is going to be welcome. So is Macron's announcement for a subscription program.

MJB414
9
4 days ago

Yeah, they’ve never quit anything Edit: Geeze I guess no jokes allowed

DarkFox56
17
4 days ago

Damn, I think you pissed off the french redditors.

Okichah
14
4 days ago

The French government capitulated in WW2. The French people never did.

Terra-112
10
4 days ago

Hur dur WW2 hur dur baguette surrender

onespiker
11
4 days ago

I think its intressting how quckly people seem to forget ww1.

Nan0u
5
4 days ago

Not even talking that the French won the American independance war for them just to piss off the Brits

LordSwedish
5
4 days ago

It's an old joke with no variation and it's inaccurate. People are tired of it.

MakeBelieveNotWar
1
4 days ago

I’ve read this comment four times and I still can’t decide if your use of monumental is an intentional or accidental pun.

senorpoop
3
4 days ago

Accidental, but as a dad, I'll take it. :)

momster777
5
4 days ago

Don’t forget Old Town Warsaw is something like 60-70 years old. The nazi’s burned down 90% of it; Belweder palace is one of the few buildings that remained unscathed.

ButtsexEurope
2
4 days ago

From the pictures, the exterior is intact. It’s not in danger of collapsing. It’s just the roof and spire that burned down. The spire had to be rebuilt once in the 19th century.

Nobody will be able to go inside the church for a long time. But it can be rebuilt.

AWD_YOLO
1
4 days ago

The stone not being structurally altered by fire is not a guarantee.

manphibian
235
4 days ago

US President Donald Trump suggested "perhaps flying water tankers" could be used to extinguish the fire.

Okay.

cjc160
154
4 days ago

Maybe if they would have raked the leaves

lenswipe
34
4 days ago

and had more paper towels

handlit33
22
4 days ago

throws a paper towel roll smugly

_Madison_
3
4 days ago

He did have a point there, it's been raise multiple times that a no burn policy is just creating a giant tinderbox of death.

LeoMarius
90
4 days ago

How is he in charge of anything larger than a men's room?

[deleted]
68
4 days ago

[removed]

lenswipe
34
4 days ago

and stupidtiy

rendlo
2
4 days ago

Racism!!!!! Bigot!!!!! Propaganda!!!!

Smaskifa
4
4 days ago

Electoral College makes some states matter more/less than others. Sparsely populated states yield much more voting power per person than heavily populated states, because every state gets at least 3 Electoral Votes (2 Senators and 1 Congressman minimum per state). So Wyoming's population of 577,000 results in 1 EV per 192,000 people. But California's population of 39,560,000 and 55 EVs yields only 1 EV per 719,000 people. So a Wyoming vote in a presidential election is equivalent to about 3.74 California votes.

Most sparsely populated states also lean heavily toward republicans, so their party reaps the rewards of this skewed system, and is very much against anything that would balance it (like making Puerto Rico a state) or simply doing away with the Electoral College.

This system also results in many states being non-competitive since they lean heavily toward one party or the other (TX and CA are good examples). This results in presidential candidates not bothering to campaign much (if at all) in those states because the winner is a foregone conclusion. Trump is not going to win California, and Sanders is not going to win Mississippi, so neither candidate will pander to either of those states. Instead they'll focus on the few heavier populated states that don't lean heavily toward one party (Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Ohio generally). End result, the winner of those states determine who wins the election. Trump won all 4.

LeoMarius
12
4 days ago

The only states that matter are the swing states. Even with Wyoming's outsized power, no one ever thinks to visit it after Labor Day in an Election Year. The same goes for Vermont, Rhode Island, Delaware, Alaska, Hawaii, Idaho, etc.

The Swing State effect that renders 85% of Americans spectators on Election Day is a major argument against winner-take-all state elections for President. Proponents argue that the big cities would get all the attention, but now they get none, and neither do the vast majority of rural voters.

shylocxs
4
4 days ago

Shit, do you really want him running a men's room?

sephtis
3
4 days ago

I wouldn't trust Trump with my toilet.

bsbbtnh
2
4 days ago

Wood framing is destroyed, anyways.

Plane

Helicopter

5000_Fish
45
4 days ago

French officials replied to this tweet (in english) calling out Trump saying dropping water from the sky would destroy the structure more.

evanc1411
25
4 days ago

Did he actually say th- oh what am I thinking, of course he did.

mmarkklar
19
4 days ago

If it weren't for the fact that he's President of the United States, the idea of a 70 year old man trying to play firefighter would be pretty amusing.

JacP123
16
4 days ago

Depends, can we throw him from the plane instead?

mmarkklar
10
4 days ago
vibes86
2
4 days ago

All that hairspray though...

RolandGilead19
11
4 days ago

Certainly paper towels could fix the problem

Ze1612
9
4 days ago

Did you know. He's an "expert" in everything

Brodogmillionaire1
8
4 days ago

Does he mean the planes used on forest fires or the hovercraft used in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith to put out the flaming half of General Grievous's ship when Anakin landed it in Coruscant?

tinyfables
2
4 days ago

See, we need the Space Force.

brazilliandanny
3
4 days ago

Hes now wondering who has the "second highest cathedral" to give them credit for that.

Ttmh888
2
4 days ago

Who gives a hoot about what he thinks. I'm annoyed the media is reporting on it.

Csmith334
190
4 days ago

Out of 52 weeks in a year, it is burning down during one of the “holy” weeks

bfhurricane
59
4 days ago

I hope this isn’t the case, but I have an uneasy feeling that this was deliberate.

dellett
92
4 days ago

You can see that there's a lot of scaffolding on the roof in some of the pictures, they were doing some restoration work on the spire apparently. Wouldn't be surprised to hear that a worker was a little careless with a cigarette around some flammable chemicals or something.

mageta621
30
4 days ago

It's the French, there's cigarettes everywhere!

InsertEvilLaugh
1
4 days ago

Caused by an electrical fault of some sort.

OnlyGoodRedditorHere
28
4 days ago

How do we know that? It literally just burned down a few hours ago and no investigation yet

CommanderCuntPunt
18
4 days ago

He’s talking out of his ass. Yes it is likely it was caused by some kind of electrical issue, but there’s absolutely no evidence for anything at this point.

PM_ME_CATS_OR_BOOBS
9
4 days ago

And yet it makes a lot more sense than hysterically jumping to a shadowy cabal of arsonists.

HiddenThrowAwayIRL
1
4 days ago

They're not very shadowy, the drive trucks into crowds and post videos of them beheading men.

elbenji
4
4 days ago

Or yknow. Volatile chemicals in restoration processes. Jesus christ

thepobv
3
4 days ago

I hate how people just say X.

Instead of saying they think it's X... or they've heard it's X... or Y is reporting X.

They're just so confidently without a single doubt or droplet of shame proclaims X.

OkiDokiTokiLoki
2
4 days ago

I'm leaning towards that anti-pigeon wiring they have had on the roof.

Drewinator
1
4 days ago

that is a current theory. he cant possibly know for sure

faployst
3
4 days ago

Could have even been someone using a grinder near some sawdust. But yeah, my first pick is a butt.

LeoMarius
11
4 days ago

It was likely caused by volatile chemicals used in the restoration process.

bfhurricane
2
4 days ago

The chemicals were definitely a propellant/caustic agent/(I have no idea how to describe flammable objects don’t judge me). Or whatever. I’m sure any products being used for the restoration, as well as the scaffolding, provided ample fuel for the fire.

But the cause is up in the air. I’m not jumping to conclusions, and I hope a thorough investigation can determine the root of the cause - electrical fault, cigarettes, and at the risk of starting an argument - terrorism or a nefarious objective.

I hope for the most innocent outcome.

Mystic_printer
13
4 days ago

How many “holy weeks” are there in a year? If it was deliberate and done specifically because now is a “Holy Week” why choose a Monday? There are many more significant days this week than today.

It being Monday before Easter makes it actually more likely there was extra pressure on the construction workers to finish some part of the work before the weekend, possibly leading to mistakes being made.

jmja
31
4 days ago

Just for your first question... in Catholicism, at least, Holy Week is the week from Palm Sunday to Holy Saturday. Even though there are a lot of important dates in the Christian calendar, the events around Good Friday and Easter Sunday are considered to be the most critical ones.

Knary50
4
4 days ago

Not Catholic, but most Christians observe or know the same holidays. There is really only one Holy Week and a few other days that are important and observed.

Lent - 40 days before Easter begins on Ash Wednesday

Holy Week - week of Easter, Palm Sunday, Spy Wednesday, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Holy Saturday/Black Saturday

Easter - the Resurrection

Pentecost - seventh Sunday after Easter the coming of the Holy Spirit

Other than these related to Easter there is Advent (40 days before Christmas and Christmas day)

There are some others days and each church is a little different, but Easter and Christmas are by far the most Holy days for any Christian/Catholic church.

Cranberries789
3
4 days ago

There's only the one "Holy Week" and its the week leading up to Easter.

But you're right theres a lot more candles people during holy week. Possibly palms and lights for passion plays too.

jeeverz
6
4 days ago

Out of 52 weeks in a year, it is burning down during one of the “holy” weeks

Let's be very careful not to insinuate anything. There are vile people on the internet already spreading rumors.

HumanSomewhere
18
4 days ago

2 other Catholic cathedrals in France have been deliberately set on fire since February. The vile people are the ones setting shit on fire, not the ones noticing people setting shit on fire.

Intern_Detective
3
4 days ago

Vile people? Rumours? On the internet!?

Nooooooooooooo. /s

meagerweaner
8
4 days ago

Two days ago three Muslim women who tried to burn it down in 2016 got sentenced to 8 years in jail

Completely unrelated of course of course

AppleDane
1
4 days ago

Yeah, what are the chances of that?

rainbowbucket
12
4 days ago

Roughly (number of holy weeks in a year)/52

AppleDane
5
4 days ago

Yeah, that was a joke, but it's 1/52. There's only one holy week.

dreamnightmare
78
4 days ago

Well I guess we can now hide from the eyes of Notre Dame.

brush_between_meals
12
4 days ago

Underrated comment.

Steinmetal4
8
4 days ago

I was randomly whistling this last night. Kinda eerie when I read the news this morning.

cassby916
3
4 days ago

Such an incredible soundtrack.

r3dt4rget
75
4 days ago
_Dalek
146
4 days ago
lenswipe
44
4 days ago

They must've gone and dun intsalled one of them new fire distinguishers

furmal182
2
4 days ago

where can i get a talking fire extinguisher, not that i need some one to talk with me umm i asking for a frend.

lenswipe
1
4 days ago
littleflowerrunner
15
4 days ago

Sometimes little doses of humor are the best way to deal with tragedy

OkiDokiTokiLoki
4
4 days ago

If you could provide some tasteful jokes about burning churches by the end of the day that'd be great.

littleflowerrunner
4
4 days ago

who said anything about tasteful

hockeyrugby
19
4 days ago

is a place like this ever not under renovation?

NikkoE82
3
4 days ago

“Renovation, what’s that all about?”

solarsavior
1
4 days ago

Yeah, I was refreshing my browser and seeing the changes for when Tiger recently won the Masters. These folks are fast and excellent.

Ipokeyoumuch
1
4 days ago

Thanks I needed a laugh, the joke is on fire.

Wrath_Of_Aguirre
59
4 days ago

How can a plague affect a building?

GeorgieWashington
89
4 days ago

People thought fire and smoke kept the plague at bay, so people lit more fires. They also burned the bodies of the dead, resulting in even more ongoing fires. Sometimes fires got out of control at a time when there were few healthy people to coordinate a strategy to put out those fires.

Brodogmillionaire1
14
4 days ago

I too was very confused by this inclusion in the title. Thank you for clearing this up.

OutsideBones86
5
4 days ago

I was laughing about the plague line but that makes sense! Thanks for teaching me that! :)

bryanRow52
11
4 days ago

Because it wasn’t vaccinated, and only had oils and herbs rubbed on it for centuries

Legoctf
57
4 days ago

Chiming in here as I sort of work in the fire alarm industry.

Retrofitting old buildings alone is difficult (think 50-100 years). Typically some serious modification is required and a lot of holes must be drilled into the building to allow for pipes, wires etc. It's very costly.

Now when you get into historic buildings? Good luck. For many reasons, must historic builds at most have a fire alarm system, but that's it. It's simply not realistic to be able to install any type of fire suppression system in them. This would require essentially ripping the building apart, and the owners of these places would never allow it, let alone a finding a contractor actually capable of taking on that risk. Most owners/controllers of these structures want absolutely nothing touched/changed/modified that in anyway would detract from it's authentic historical significance. I personally would never want to drill holes in a 300 year old wooden building, or disassemble it and then have to put it back together afterwards, because it absolutely will not go back, assuming the material the structure is made out of doesn't just disintegrate when you attempt to remove it. Building on that point too, many of the methods/materials used in the old buildings simply isn't attainable. Let's say by some miracle you found a way to recreate and/or maintain a buildings authenticity for this kind of procedure(quite literally given the delicate nature and risk involved) to be carried out, the cost would be unimaginable. And then given that this was a church and how secular France is, finding the funding would have nearly impossible, just as it was for the project that led to the fire. And then do not forget, you will assuredly encounter groups that would be angered you are potentially defiling a historic landmark and religious artifact.

I personally just finished a fire alarm system update/refresh in my city to a roughly 150 year old building. Mind you all this was, was removing old smoke detectors and installing new ones in there place, zero screws just snap in. My company was REQUIRED to have a curator present with us at all times to work in the building, simply for the liability. The owners of the facility did not want it to look like there were any smoke detectors in the building. It was very meticulous and time consuming, and all we're doing was replacing an old smoke alarm system that had already been retrofitted in. I had asked about the danger of fire in the building and the curator told me they once got a fire assessment from the local fire department a few years ago, the fire department told them after the assessment was completed that in the even of a fire, the building would be likely be ashes before they even got there.

Edit: words, phone formatting

icantredd1t
14
4 days ago

Came here to say this, I am a professional firefighter, people think it’s easy and simple to add fire protection systems. It’s not. Additionally with sprinklers I would say water damage risk to art and and features is greater than fire risk.

My guess is that it will come back as the fuel load of the scaffolding will be a primary factor to fire spread. Large diameter timbers (no matter how dry they are) are actually really good at surviving fire. However, OSB or even cut fin form boards are a different story.

JLFR
6
4 days ago

The sprinklers getting triggered by accident is probably way more likely than a fire. I can see where there would be a legitimate concern for water damage.

Disney_World_Native
3
4 days ago

Could scaffolding contain a fire suppression system? Like an outside sprinkler that runs along the temp structure to reduce the fuel load?

No modification to the historical part, but protection while there is combustible wood around the outside?

Deathisfatal
2
4 days ago

Additionally with sprinklers I would say water damage risk to art and and features is greater than fire risk.

Absolutely. Fire isn't going to make its way down into the stone crypts and reliquaries, but water sure will, and it will flood everything.

Zyratoxx
25
4 days ago

Alexa, add "Things we lost in the fire" from Bastille to my current playlist

Grimmner
8
4 days ago

The Bastille was already lost in 1789. We're talking about Notre Dame cathedral here. /s

Waramaug
17
4 days ago

Imagine being the roofer who started the fire? Awkward.

thoughts_prayers
6
4 days ago

I was thinking - imagine being a renovator. All your hard work up in flames.

whosyourphd
12
4 days ago

I didn’t know buildings could catch the plague. The more you know!

shhhhquiet
12
4 days ago

There were sometimes bonfires lit during plague to 'cleanse the air.' That's probably what OP is referring to.

whosyourphd
3
4 days ago

Thank you! I knew there was a reason and couldn’t think of what it was.

dittbub
10
4 days ago

To be fair, masonry can't get the plague

thoughtxchange
8
4 days ago

Complete craziness- still in shock to see it burning :(

t-stu2
8
4 days ago

I just saw a post claiming 700 years then someone in the comments said 800 and now this post says 900. I can’t believe how fast a 1000 year old building ages.

The_Sap_Must_Flow
2
4 days ago

Looking on Wikipedia they report a groundbreaking of 1163 (856 ya) and completion of 1345 (674 ya), which probably accounts for the disparity in those ages.

puplicy
5
4 days ago

We need one more law or regulation that finally protect our history treasures

nate800
69
4 days ago

Fire should be illegal

templefugate
38
4 days ago

Then only outlaws will be on fire.

Wafflecopter12
8
4 days ago

I.. I mean, that would probably still be a bad thing.

pgm_01
3
4 days ago

Redox equations should be illegal.

kickfloeb
15
4 days ago

I can't tell if you are sarcastic

coleosis1414
11
4 days ago

Yes we should outlaw fire

Rocky87109
13
4 days ago

Ahh it looks like the stupid has finally arrived.

MrDoctorSmartyPants
2
4 days ago

Yes. More laws and regulations. Just what the world needs. MOAR GOVERNMENT.

Marsmar-LordofMars
2
4 days ago

No more regulations! Let our corporate masters look out for our well being, as they are so prone to doing!

Goldin
5
4 days ago

What's interesting is that we are also in the age where it could be rebuilt fairly precisely using existing information like photos and videos.

calza13
4
4 days ago

This meme was around when the Notre Dame was built

RimeNerk
5
4 days ago

When I found out that the cathedral was on fire I almost cried. Visiting Notre Dame has been on my bucket list for a while now. :/

[deleted]
4
4 days ago

[removed]

GeorgieWashington
5
4 days ago

Let me ask you something. You're like the 10th person to suggest that, and so far no one has answered my question.

Do you have any proof at all? If not, why do you automatically assume that's who is responsible?

LSD_Aquarius
5
4 days ago

RIP quasimodo

omegawolf1000
4
4 days ago

While we mourn the loss of historic architecture let's be thankful that no one has lost their life in this tragic event.

wwaxwork
3
4 days ago

Yeah nah got completely fucked over during the French Revolution & took Victor Hugo & his book money from "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" to repair it, and to build the spire that burned down.

RandomHero00
4
4 days ago

Fakkin terrorists

goaheadcarvell
2
4 days ago

I really don’t get why anyone is so concerned. Genuinely. Not trolling or anything. No one was hurt, the building was insured and so we move on. I’m not happy about it or sad. It’s a building. Any single tragic loss of life is infinitely more significant.

ChilieMacPalmer
2
4 days ago

There are many people who would live on to have a worthless unproductive and burdened existence that helped no one. This building gave* faith to hundreds of millions of people.

RowdyPanda
2
4 days ago

i think its about the history its been a part of and the culture it reprecent. it has stood on the grounds of Paris for a very long time. Just because someone didnt die doesnt mean there wasnt anything significant lost. luckily the relics and sculpture seems to be fine

mitocatria
3
4 days ago

this fucking subreddit is stuck in 1160

restless_oblivion
3
4 days ago

i wish reddit would burn down right now.

this is fucking cringy

MontanaDoesntExist
4
4 days ago

I wish this subreddit would burn down

KamuiT
2
4 days ago

Hasn't it burned down before?

5Gonza5
2
4 days ago

Too soon man

cutesymonsterman
2
4 days ago

It's burnt before.

Ryanskillz
2
4 days ago

The plague infected buildings?

GeorgieWashington
10
4 days ago

What do you think happened to many buildings when everyone thought fire kept the plague away and people were too sick to fight any fire that got out of control?

ProBenji123
2
4 days ago

too soon

elchivo83
2
4 days ago

It hasn't burnt down though, has it? People are going on as if the building has ceased to be. It will be rebuilt, as it has been before. This is what happens with old buildings. It's sad, but it's not the monumental tragedy people who don't understand history and architecture are making it out to be.

outerproduct
2
4 days ago

I'm more blown away given the number of revolutions, wars, and government changes it survived. I mean, the French revolution, reformation of the Catholic Church, both world wars; it is staggering.

Baybob1
2
4 days ago

Golly, it's almost as if God was pissed at the Catholic Church. Why would that be? If I were the Pope, I sure wouldn't go outside during any lightning storms ...

Jeppertron
2
4 days ago

I’m just happy to see Bad Luck Brian back on the front page!

Civil_Barbarian
2
4 days ago

ITT, how can a building catch the plague and Islamophobia.

saninicus
2
4 days ago

France lost +10 happiness and +4 faith a turn too :(

RespectableBloke69
2
4 days ago

Cathedrals are notoriously susceptible to plagues. Terrible immune systems.

GhengopelALPHA
2
4 days ago

This overlooks the fact that with the advent of all those modern devices, humans themselves have gotten much, MUCH more careless.

It burned in the current Age of Common Negligence.

IdoDeclareGoToHell
2
4 days ago

Imagine this being done on purpose for a large ass renovation bill so the companies that handle it get payed big. just saying it is a theory you don't have to believe it.

GeorgieWashington
2
4 days ago

Possible. Not likely, but possible.

hostilecarrot
2
4 days ago

Ive always gotten the impression Reddit hated religion. Now, all of a sudden, we care so much about a church that it’s like 50% of the top page. This is a weird place.

ElChromium
3
4 days ago

Regardless of religion it's still a peace of cultural heritage. It's like if the Lincoln memorial caught fire.

Hiyami
2
4 days ago

Except this meme is irrelevant because it survived.

Fun_Resident
2
4 days ago

Thousands of fine young men lost their virginity in this building !

skeliskull
2
4 days ago

Smoke detecters and sprinkers don’t work on roofs? And firefighters just contain fires to prevent it spreading but whatever’s burning is already gone. I mean how stupid is this post seriously.

NewRichLife
2
4 days ago

Why is plague mentioned...

shklsdfh
2
4 days ago

We will build a new one... with blackjack and hookers.

-Stressless
1
4 days ago

She got overconfident.

theriteshoe
1
4 days ago

F

Boban-SMASH
1
4 days ago

ok people really need to understand that the whole structure isn't coming down. it's made of stone ffs. yes it will need extensive renovations but inside the cathedral will most likely be FINE.

_Madison_
2
4 days ago

Stone splits when heated and the roof vaults are very thin. Fire has trashed several Cathedrals.

DrFortnight
1
4 days ago

also the age when we can SUMMON LIGHTNING AT WILL though

jake13122
1
4 days ago

lol

ddosn
1
4 days ago

At least it wasnt the big bit at the front, just the roof and a spire further back.

it can be rebuilt.

Mesha8
1
4 days ago

I get the rest....but the plague???

GeorgieWashington
3
4 days ago

Everyone knows that plagues and fires are fond of one another.

Aivech
1
4 days ago

Plague means burning bodies and contaminated places. Sometimes those fires get out of control, but everyone is too sick to do anything about it.

SrixXen
1
4 days ago

can we get an F for Notre Dame?

litefoot
1
4 days ago

In other news, Varg Vikernes seen leaving Notre Dame....

jb69029
1
4 days ago

At least now they can rebuild the spire into a huge cell tower.

timmy198000
1
4 days ago

I literally just read this , and was like what ?!? Looked up and on the tv it’s playing the exact same thing and then I was like oh ..

jpowell180
1
4 days ago
siflrock
1
4 days ago

Was it too much to photoshop a beret and baguette on Brian?

Bacon-in-Space
1
4 days ago

The longer a building exists without a fire the more likely it will burn down.

SandakinTheTriplet
1
4 days ago

Such a missed opportunity for this meme with Quasimodo

redsand69
2
4 days ago

Some people did something.

rj20876
1
4 days ago

How would the plague hurt the cathedral?

GeorgieWashington
5
4 days ago

Fires often followed plagues in the past.

TheRogueMalice
1
4 days ago

Also poison damage

kontekisuto
1
4 days ago

I would have installed an aircraft carrier foamy fire suppressant system.

MostHighAcademe
1
4 days ago

Why the fuck would a plague damage the cathedral?

GeorgieWashington
3
4 days ago

Historically, fires and plagues go hand in hand.

_Madison_
3
4 days ago

Lack of available manpower to maintain it. Up to 60% of Europe's population disappeared so lots of projects went by the wayside.

mantrap2
1
4 days ago

Technically it was in such poor repair by Napoleon's time that most people wanted to tear it down. Napoleon insisted on repairing it.

Also remember that Victor Hugo wrote "Hunchback of Notre Dame" after Napoleon did this.

BATHTUBSURFER
1
4 days ago

Jesus does not save the house of diddlers.

Dorigan23
1
4 days ago

It was in disrepair within the last 200 years, it's been rebuilt a NUMBER of times.

Derpinator_30
1
4 days ago

Plenty of new space just opened up for residential high rises sold my your friendly next door corporations!

Captainfire008
1
4 days ago

F

USPropagandaFor100
1
4 days ago

While there was a restoration crew working where the fire started...

I_Died_Once
1
4 days ago

What are they going to do with the Hunchback NOW ???

me40k
1
4 days ago

it was properly due to carelessness with "hot work" as that tends to be a major risk for starting fires. and with an old building with a lot of wood due to the big renovations, they have been using grinders/or other tools that are considered hot work. mix that with people cutting wood and you have a big fire hazard

OdeFabian
1
4 days ago

Too soon homie, too soon

blazeit420canada
1
4 days ago

is made of rocks

thaz230
1
4 days ago

Thank God it survived the Black Plague. Thought for sure that would have taken it.

GeorgieWashington
1
4 days ago

Did you see what the Black Plague did to London?

thaz230
1
4 days ago

That was unfortunately before my time. Kinda glad I wasn’t there though to be honest.

GeorgieWashington
2
4 days ago

Yeah, I heard from a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy who was there. He said that the burning of bodies, combined with the false belief that fire and smoke cleaned the plague-riddled "bad air," combined with the destruction the plague caused to the central government, combined with the lack of able-bodied citizens, caused the Great Fire to get out of control more than it otherwise would have.

amandal0514
1
4 days ago

YES!!! This is what I don’t understand. It has made it through so much! But here in the modern world is when it gets destroyed???

Attiicuss
1
4 days ago

how the hell would a plague destroy a building

unless someone can prove me wrong

nyyark
1
4 days ago

People to sick to maintain it properly? It’s a stretch.

insanetwit
1
4 days ago

Well it wasn't built for electricity...

Wardo1210
1
4 days ago

Totally sucks

psychoaway
1
4 days ago

I still don't know how the building survived the Plague.

j8s8n
1
4 days ago

Not really true. Parts of it have burned before. And restored.

HelpingrFrugalOut
1
4 days ago

Lol

Yeet122333
1
4 days ago

Dead meme

lanceparth
1
4 days ago

A victim of the Pittsburgh Temple shootings survived the Holocaust just to be killed for her religion years later. Terrible.

dynamicflashy
1
4 days ago

I didn’t realise plagues infected buildings.

GeorgieWashington
3
4 days ago

They don't. But they're hell on a central government tasked with fighting city fires that get out of control.

ThatCringyBoi19
1
4 days ago

To soon

joshmaaaaaaans
1
4 days ago

Does anyone know really how old it is? I've seen two centuries old, I've also seen 700 years old and now I've seen 900 years old, lol, everyone seems to have their own idea for how old this building is.

TheJaybo
1
4 days ago

During a renovation.

UCDent
1
4 days ago

Mixing of flags and candles is dangerous.

KingReddit99
1
4 days ago

It's amazing that it survived the building plague of 1428.

Mutant_Cookies
1
4 days ago

Hold on is that a picture of ron weasly if he wasn't in hogwarts? Or is it just me?

lil_puip
1
4 days ago

Just use creative mode to bring it back lol

Deadlyasparagus
1
4 days ago

Poor contractor management results in fire more often than you can imagine.

RYtheSky
1
4 days ago

It's been a long time since I've seen Bad Luck Brian. You must be from the golden days.

PioneerDinosaur
1
4 days ago

Capitalism will destroy everything and everyone you love. Remember that.

FlameoHotboi
1
4 days ago

Well. This isn’t advice. And that’s not an animal. This sub sucks lol.

Roserabbithole
1
4 days ago

Has anyone said how the fire began??

Bayerrc
1
4 days ago

I think we all know notre dame has been this badly damaged before, and it will be rebuilt just like in the past

Sw0rDz
1
4 days ago

I feel so out of the loop. I found out the Notre Dame had a fire.

nepworks1
1
4 days ago

The first sprinkler system was tested in the 15th century. The first successful sprinkler system was installed in 1723.

ashok36
1
4 days ago

Nothing last forever.

We can rebuild it at least.

Ability5
1
4 days ago

Well gasoline is a really fast accelerant

Six7Six7
1
4 days ago

Their god must be very unhappy about all the pedophilia.

Level69dragonwizard
1
4 days ago

Yeah man he got really sick during the plague and there weren’t any antibiotics so it just used that Witch Hazel essential oil.

natmatfoo
1
4 days ago

How would it be damaged by plagues, anyway?

Double_A_Ron6
1
4 days ago

Too soon

kincandenza
1
4 days ago

How's a plague gonna hurt a cathedral?

MachineGoat
1
4 days ago

How did The Catholic Church allow this to happen!!??

Shame on them!!

XXXStreamerbtwXXX
1
4 days ago

They should rebuild it and praise Shrek instead of jesus.

dragonpjb
1
4 days ago

It's not dead just seriously wounded!

3DLVBBKing
1
4 days ago

It was never damaged while they were burning people in front.

pneumanimagus
1
4 days ago

It's like Alexander the Great, survived bloody wars but killed by a mosquito.

jackyalin
1
4 days ago

One of those renovators really fucked up

roll20sucks
1
4 days ago

I like how you put Fire Trucks in there, because it begs the question where everyone is saying how Notre Dame was too old to retrofit fire suppression systems inside - why wasn't there some sort of 24 hour fire crew nearby?

I'm sure they could hide a bunch of extinguishers and even a guy or two inside a room somewhere, even next door or across the street. Seems like a cheaper investment than the amounts being given to retro fit modern fire suppression systems. Makes sense that any historical building would have a fire guard of some sort.

Rheastar
1
4 days ago

Too soon 😢

Hehenheim88
1
4 days ago

Smoke detectors sprinklers, fire trucks and a severe overabundance of incompetence in management.

Miobravo
1
4 days ago

Oh 😮

see_hag
1
4 days ago

Bullshit.

nightcycling
1
4 days ago

Bet ya a dime for a dozen, that there are no smoking signs everywhere, especially on the balcony.

GameHistoryX
1
4 days ago

Too soon!

Mnawab
1
4 days ago

Oh no, where will Quasimodo live now?

kendrickplace
1
4 days ago

Trump is going to find out and build a casino. Trumpthedral

johann_vandersloot
1
4 days ago
definitelyrushianbot
1
4 days ago

Probably because all of the fire fighters were on their 3rd holiday for the quarter, the smoke detectors were removed so all the French people working there could smoke in it and the sprinklers were on strike for not getting more than their allotted 3 months of holiday per year.

thearss1
1
4 days ago

As someone who works in the industry of fire and life safety you get a lot of "there's nothing that can burn" and/or "it's grandfathered in" for places like this just because someone was trying to save some money.

thesingingzombie
1
4 days ago

It👏🏻did👏🏻not👏🏻burn👏🏻down!!!

gamechanger22
2
4 days ago

I mean, it’s a stone shell now. So kinda.